Morality

[tw]

Carter 'Disturbed' by Direction of U.S.
"Everywhere you go, you hear, 'What has happened to the United States of America? We thought you used to be the champion of human rights. We thought you used to protect the environment. We thought you used to believe in the separation of church and state,'" Carter said Friday at Unity Temple.

"I felt so disturbed and angry about this radical change in America," he said. ...

Today a man died. A man who was condemned and disparaged for so many years because he and flight crew sat their helicopter down, and pointed their weapons at American troops in My Lai. It was not until late 1990s that Thompson was given just praise for stopping a My Lai massacre by pointing guns at American troops. He was condemned by righteous right wing extremists who still blame liberals and the press - not a lying president - for an American defeat in Vietnam.

MyLai was created by an immoral president who used righteous morality proclamations to send 35.000 American troops to their death - so that a Vietnam war would not be lost on his watch. When a president is a liar, then corruption flows everywhere. 85% of all problems are directly traceable to who? No one was successfully prosecuted for the My Lai massacre -due in part to moralists who are really nothing more than political extremists. My Lai only demostrates what happens when the president lies about reasons for war.

Hell. Troops still cannot get sufficient amour because the president declared "Mission Accomplished" - he lied.

Those who use religion to justify political actions in the name of morality - those who would impose their religion upon others - those who do things because god told them ... those are without Morality. Those self proclaimed 'moralists' will even use "repetitious, untruthful testimony" to promote their satanic agenda (Dover PA: "Defendants' previously referenced flagrant and insulting falsehoods to the Court ..."). They would use rationalization of morality to justifiy their outright violation of god's laws - "Thout shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor". Only Satanists would do that. You know them because they are so immoral as to use morality and religous extremism to jusify crimes even against god's laws. They are so immoral as to impose their relgious beliefs on others.

Thompson was a hero because he used secular concepts - as defined by Fundamental Declaration of Human Rights - to save innocent civilians from troops who were there only because a president lied - repeatedly. President repeatedly lied because his popularity was more important than American principles. Nixon or George Jr. They both created a problem that Jimmy Carter defines.

Tell you what, tw. I am a firm believer in the thought that a people get the government they deserve. Nixon, Johnson and Bush Jr. are hardly sterling examples of moral integrity or intelligent as well as just leadership. They hardly demonstrate unswerving dedication to the best interests of their country. Yet, look at how many Americans defended these men and still defend them.

Why do so many of our own people refuse to open up their eyes and look around? Why do so many take the easy way out, mouthing mindless patriotic slogans, and viewing the world with a child's simplistic, black and white construct?

People with a mindset akin to UG's are far more numerous in this nation than we would like to think. Most people who post here on the Cellar at least have given some reasoned consideration to their views (UG being a notable exception). I may completely disagree with UT 99% of the time, for example, but even I have to concede that the boy has read up on his current events and has taken the time and the effort to think his position through. I wish I could say that of the rest of our fellow countrymen with whom I happen to disagree. They don't ALL have MBA's - hell, a lot of them barely managed to graduate from high school.

The United States today is facing not just a crisis in its government but a crisis in those who who have chosen to be so governed. We have become a people who are intellectually and morally lazy. True patriotism does not consist of a blanket endorsement of evil deeds and self-serving actions draped under the banner of the stars and stripes. We wrap our war dead in the flag and then refuse to even allow pictures of those flag draped coffins to be shown in the national media.

Things have come to such a sorry pass in this country that a man nominated to be a Supreme Court Justice can defend his record by making a statement that he "said that just to get the job" and regard this explanation as one that the rest of us will understand and consider a justified act.

The American people have become arrogant and close minded. We think that our high standard of living is because of the fact that we are "better" than everyone else. If the government does something, it must be correct because it is the AMERICAN governmnet. If we currently top the world in military might, it must be because God and the angels are on our side.

We forget that America did not invent the principles of democracy all by itself. The people who founded this country drew on the philosophies of Athens and Rome and the works of their contemporaries who were British, French and even German. The oldest democracy in the world is not the US but the Swiss Confederation which pre-dates the American Revolution by 500 years.

We tend to overlook the fact that America's abundence is due to the luck of geography and natural resources which Western Man did not get a chance to begin exploiting until a mere 4 or 5 hundred years ago. However, our resources are as finite as anyone else's. Oil is a perfect example of this and it is oil which drives US policy and actions in the world today.

America's enemy is not Iraq or Iran. It is not the Muslim world which will bring this country to its knees. The nation which may destroy us is China. China wants oil, too. Economically, China is undermining the US to an extent that we refuse to understand or even look at. China's population dwarfs our own into insignificance and China can be pragmatic about warfare and military and civilian casualties to an extent that is beyond even our own blood thirty comprehension.

China would be defanged but for one thing- the American people. We refuse to see the writng on the wall. We continue to demand the luxury of driving in SUV's - one person to a car on every crowded rush hour freeway. We continue to outsource American industry to a communist country and call it the "global free market."

The American people are badly in need of a wake up call far greater than ever 9/11 was. We need to understand that freedom is not secured by a people's unthinking sanction of global bloodletting. That a free market does not mean going down to Walmart and buying a cheap toaster made by a communist sponsored factory in a country that pays it workers a tenth of what they would make here. That a strong country is created by a strong people and strong people are created by universal access to the best education and medical care that is available - not a great education for some and a substandard one for the rest; not some children eating gourmet natural foods meals every night and others eating generic mac and cheese or going to bed hungry; not some people's pets getting $100,000 surgeries to prolong the life of a poodle by two years while human mothers on the other side of town don't even have access to adequate prenatal care.

No man is an island. The myth of America's "rugged individualism" is just that - a myth. No pioneer family made it across Indian Country alone. The thirteen colonies did not have 13 individual revolutions to secure freedom from British rule. A man who sold out his fellows to the British for his own personal gain was hanged. The men who died at the Alamo were from Kentucky and Tennessee and North Carolina - not just Texas.

Unthinking adherance to the government party line, a refusal to speak out against unjust actions, a lack of personal integrity and morality, and a refusal to budge from one's personal comfort zone makes for a country that creates Aushwitz and Bergen-Belsen- NOT the Statue of Liberty.

Our leadership is but a symptom of the people's disease.

[richlevy]

Originally Posted by tw

Today a man died. A man who was condemned and disparaged for so many years because he and flight crew sat their helicopter down, and pointed their weapons at American troops in My Lai. It was not until late 1990s that Thompson was given just praise for stopping a My Lai massacre by pointing guns at American troops. He was condemned by righteous right wing extremists who still blame liberals and the press - not a lying president - for an American defeat in Vietnam.

You should have linked to the full story. I think that it is a very important one. In any war there are those who believe that any action done under the flag that one is supporting is righteous, and any action taken by the enemy is evil. These people ignore the lessons of history that teach us that brutality is not the sole export of one nation.

Mr. Thompson made a moral choice in the middle of combat thousands of miles from home. He took the chance of death at the hands of his fellow soldiers or imprisonment or death by court martial. He endured decades of scorn and mistreatment by self-described patriots who acted as cowards. He could have participated in the massacre. He could do what so many others have done and simply ingnored the killing since it was being done by the 'right side' for the 'right reasons'.

I cannot speak for the veterans here. I'm afraid to ask them what they would have done or even if they feel that there was some possible justification for the deliberate killing of children as young as 2 years old. I'm pretty sure a majority would have at least sympathized with Thompson.

We are at a time when the majority of people seem unwilling to make difficult moral choices. From Enron to the White House, there seems to be a culture of blind obedience, even among those who openly profess their dedication to religion and morality. Thompson was an example of someone who made the unpopular choice and suffered for it.

Thanks for pointing this out TW. I remember the medal award in the late 90's but I didn't know about his passing.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Ya know, Mari, with that attitude you'll never be rich.

[Beestie]

Originally Posted by marichiko

...That a strong country is created by a strong people and strong people are created by universal access to the best education and medical care that is available - not a great education for some and a substandard one for the rest; not some children eating gourmet natural foods meals every night and others eating generic mac and cheese or going to bed hungry; not some people's pets getting $100,000 surgeries to prolong the life of a poodle by two years while human mothers on the other side of town don't even have access to adequate prenatal care.

No man is an island. The myth of America's "rugged individualism" is just that - a myth.

I couldn't disagree with you more. There has always been a class disparity here. Its just that before, folks took responsibility to get educated. Today, many use class disparity as an excuse instead of as motivation.

America was indeed founded on rugged individualism. By people who didn't accept second best but who also didn't sit back in wait in expectation of the government to make everything fair and equal. The Declaration of Independence guarantees everyone the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It does not guarantee that those things will be hand delivered to every citizen.

Health care will always be better for the wealthy. If someone wants the same health care as a wealthy person then they should become wealthy. Otherwise they are are stuck with the same health care as the rest of us.

I think America will take a big step forward when its citizens stop reclassifying every want as a need and every need as an entitlement.

Unthinking adherance to the government party line, a refusal to speak out against unjust actions, a lack of personal integrity and morality, and a refusal to budge from one's personal comfort zone makes for a country that creates Aushwitz and Bergen-Belsen- NOT the Statue of Liberty.

Our leadership is but a symptom of the people's disease.

Agreed but I have never gotten the idea that America is complacent with its current status. Dissent is alive and well today. In Nazi Germany, Michael Moore's body would never be found. In America, he's a millionaire. And what about the lady who was camping out at Crawford? Only in America.

Well, let us agree to violently disagree, good Americans that we both are! LOL!

I have debated essentially this same topic in the Cellar once before. I consider it a waste of time to have the same old argument again. If it makes you feel better to believe that a significant proportion of Americans are too lazy to educate themselves, feel free to think that. I consider such an opinion to be an intellectually lazy one, myself.

If you feel that a people can maintain a civilized society and remain viable as a nation by rationing out medical care to some but not others, then you are wrong. No one human being is intrinsically more valuable than the next. Suppose we both develop the same illness that is fatal if untreated. I have the money for the cure and you don't. Too bad for you and lucky me. Such an outlook is unacceptable to me. If that's the society you want to live in, here, have my medicine and live in your society. I'd rather not.

[wolf]

It's available to everyone. If you need life saving medical care the law requires that you receive it.

[Happy Monkey]

Sort of.

Depending on what state you live in, too. In Colorado they'll treat you for something dramatic like a car wreck or heart attack. But if you come down with a chronic illness, good luck, sucker, if you are low income and have no health insurance.