5/10/2005: Dinosaur tracks

[OnyxCougar]

Originally Posted by jaguar

Er. No. It hasen't. Maybe is crazy-topsy-turvy creationist world is has but here in reality, the modern scientific community, it hasn't. The conspiricy talk to amusing too. You've just stated some fairly amusing stuff, I challenege you to back up one of those claims with a paper published in a reputable scientific journal. Not some wacky creationist one but a real scientific paper supporting one of those points that has been perr reviewed and published.

Lets have a closer look at AiG then shall we? Why not look at the top? Persident Ken Ham, who, according to his bio:
Impressive! An undergrad degree from a second rate uni! Ken's writings demonstrate perfectly the kind of logical silliness the AiG is based on and OnyxCougar is so ready to accept without question:
Like this gem:


Sounds convincing if you don't have a clue what you're talking about.
Sadly Diluvial models of coal formation are inconsistent with a wide variety of observations, and can be dismissed as untenable. Criticisms of autochthonous models made by AiG and other creationists are based largely on factual errors, misleading statements, and failure to consider all data. Moreover, since there exists strong evidence for many autochthonous coals in the geologic record, and since peats in the modern world accumulate at rates less than or equal to about 5mm/yr (Diemont and Supardi 1987), the presence of numerous thick autochthonous coals is good evidence that the earth is older than YECs typically allow."

This is typical of AiG arguments, fudge a bit there, ignore something when it doesn't fit and claim that all of science is an evil conspiricy to keep you down. I could go on for pages but why bother? It's not needed, nothing will move those that cling to their silly misconceptions and lies and everyone else thinks they're worrying at worst and hilarious at best.

Hmm...what about:

Are there scientists alive today who accept the biblical account of creation?
Note: Individuals on this list must possess a doctorate in a science-related field.

Dr Paul Ackerman, Psychologist
Dr James Allan, Geneticist
Dr Steve Austin, Geologist
Dr S.E. Aw, Biochemist
Dr Thomas Barnes, Physicist
Dr Don Batten, Plant physiologist, tropical fruit expert
Dr John Baumgardner, Electrical Engineering, Space Physicist, Geophysicist, expert in supercomputer modeling of plate tectonics
Dr Jerry Bergman, Psychologist
Dr Kimberly Berrine, Microbiology & Immunology
Prof. Vladimir Betina, Microbiology, Biochemistry & Biology
Dr Raymond G. Bohlin, Biologist
Dr Andrew Bosanquet, Biology, Microbiology
Dr David R. Boylan, Chemical Engineer
Prof. Linn E. Carothers, Associate Professor of Statistics
Dr David Catchpoole, Plant Physiologist (read his testimony)
Prof. Sung-Do Cha, Physics
Dr Eugene F. Chaffin, Professor of Physics
Dr Choong-Kuk Chang, Genetic Engineering
Prof. Jeun-Sik Chang, Aeronautical Engineering
Dr Donald Chittick, Physical Chemist
Prof. Chung-Il Cho, Biology Education
Dr Harold Coffin, Palaeontologist
Dr Bob Compton, DVM
Dr Ken Cumming, Biologist
Dr Jack W. Cuozzo, Dentist
Dr William M. Curtis III, Th.D., Th.M., M.S., Aeronautics & Nuclear Physics
Dr Malcolm Cutchins, Aerospace Engineering
Dr Lionel Dahmer, Analytical Chemist
Dr Raymond V. Damadian, M.D., Pioneer of magnetic resonance imaging
Dr Chris Darnbrough, Biochemist
Dr. Nancy M. Darrall, Botany
Dr Bryan Dawson, Mathematics
Dr Douglas Dean, Biological Chemistry
Prof. Stephen W. Deckard, Assistant Professor of Education
Dr David A. DeWitt, Biology, Biochemistry, Neuroscience
Dr Don DeYoung, Astronomy, atmospheric physics, M.Div
Dr Geoff Downes, Creationist Plant Physiologist
Dr Ted Driggers, Operations research
Dr André Eggen, Geneticist
Prof. Dennis L. Englin, Professor of Geophysics
Prof. Danny Faulkner, Astronomy
Prof. Carl B. Fliermans, Professor of Biology
Prof. Dwain L. Ford, Organic Chemistry
Prof. Robert H. Franks, Associate Professor of Biology
Dr Alan Galbraith, Watershed Science
Dr Paul Giem, Medical Research
Dr Maciej Giertych, Geneticist
Dr Duane Gish, Biochemist
Dr Werner Gitt, Information Scientist
Dr Dianne Grocott, Psychiatrist
Dr Stephen Grocott, Industrial Chemist
Dr Donald Hamann, Food Scientist
Dr Barry Harker, Philosopher
Dr Charles W. Harrison, Applied Physicist, Electromagnetics
Dr John Hartnett, Physicist and Cosmologist
Dr Mark Harwood, Satellite communications Specialist
Dr George Hawke, Environmental Scientist
Dr Margaret Helder, Science Editor, Botanist
Dr Harold R. Henry, Engineer
Dr Jonathan Henry, Astronomy
Dr Joseph Henson, Entomologist
Dr Robert A. Herrmann, Professor of Mathematics, US Naval Academy
Dr Andrew Hodge, Head of the Cardiothoracic Surgical Service
Dr Kelly Hollowell, Molecular and Cellular Pharmacologist
Dr Ed Holroyd, III, Atmospheric Science
Dr Bob Hosken, Biochemistry
Dr Neil Huber, Physical Anthropologist
Dr Russell Humphreys, Physicist
Dr James A. Huggins, Professor and Chair, Department of Biology
George T. Javor, Biochemistry
Dr Pierre Jerlström, Creationist Molecular Biologist
Dr Jonathan W. Jones, Plastic Surgeon
Dr Raymond Jones, Agricultural Scientist
Prof. Leonid Korochkin, Molecular Biology
Dr Valery Karpounin, Mathematical Sciences, Logics, Formal Logics
Dr Dean Kenyon, Biologist
Prof. Gi-Tai Kim, Biology
Prof. Harriet Kim, Biochemistry
Prof. Jong-Bai Kim, Biochemistry
Prof. Jung-Han Kim, Biochemistry
Prof. Jung-Wook Kim, Environmental Science
Prof. Kyoung-Rai Kim, Analytical Chemistry
Prof. Kyoung-Tai Kim, Genetic Engineering
Prof. Young-Gil Kim, Materials Science
Prof. Young In Kim, Engineering
Dr John W. Klotz, Biologist
Dr Vladimir F. Kondalenko, Cytology/Cell Pathology
Dr Leonid Korochkin, M.D., Genetics, Molecular Biology, Neurobiology
Dr John K.G. Kramer, Biochemistry
Prof. Jin-Hyouk Kwon, Physics
Prof. Myung-Sang Kwon, Immunology
Prof. John Lennox, Mathematics
Dr John Leslie, Biochemist
Prof. Lane P. Lester, Biologist, Genetics
Dr Jason Lisle, Astrophysicist
Dr Alan Love, Chemist
Dr Ian Macreadie, molecular biologist and microbiologist:
Dr John Marcus, Molecular Biologist
Dr George Marshall, Eye Disease Researcher
Dr Ralph Matthews, Radiation Chemist
Dr John McEwan, Chemist
Prof. Andy McIntosh, Combustion theory, aerodynamics
Dr David Menton, Anatomist
Dr Angela Meyer, Creationist Plant Physiologist
Dr John Meyer , Physiologist
Dr John N. Moore, Science Educator
Dr. John W, Moreland, Mechanical engineer and Dentist
Dr Henry M. Morris, Hydrologist
Dr John D. Morris, Geologist
Dr Len Morris, Physiologist
Dr Graeme Mortimer, Geologist
Prof. Hee-Choon No, Nuclear Engineering
Dr Eric Norman, Biomedical researcher
Dr David Oderberg, Philosopher
Prof. John Oller, Linguistics
Prof. Chris D. Osborne, Assistant Professor of Biology
Dr John Osgood, Medical Practitioner
Dr Charles Pallaghy, Botanist
Dr Gary E. Parker, Biologist, Cognate in Geology (Paleontology)
Dr David Pennington, Plastic Surgeon
Prof. Richard Porter
Dr John Rankin, Cosmologist
Dr A.S. Reece, M.D.
Prof. J. Rendle-Short, Pediatrics
Dr Jung-Goo Roe, Biology
Dr David Rosevear, Chemist
Dr Ariel A. Roth, Biology
Dr Jonathan D. Sarfati, Physical chemist / spectroscopist
Dr Joachim Scheven Palaeontologist:
Dr Ian Scott, Educator
Dr Saami Shaibani, Forensic physicist
Dr Young-Gi Shim, Chemistry
Prof. Hyun-Kil Shin, Food Science
Dr Mikhail Shulgin, Physics
Dr Emil Silvestru, Geologist/karstologist
Dr Roger Simpson, Engineer
Dr Harold Slusher, Geophysicist
Dr Andrew Snelling , Geologist
Prof. Man-Suk Song, Computer Science
Dr Timothy G. Standish, Biology
Prof. James Stark , Assistant Professor of Science Education
Prof. Brian Stone, Engineer
Dr Esther Su, Biochemistry
Dr Charles Taylor, Linguistics
Dr Michael Todhunter, Forest Genetics
Dr Lyudmila Tonkonog, Chemistry/Biochemistry
Dr Royal Truman, Organic Chemist:
Dr Larry Vardiman, Atmospheric Science
Prof. Walter Veith, Zoologist
Dr Joachim Vetter, Biologist
Dr Tas Walker, Mechanical Engineer and Geologist
Dr Jeremy Walter, Mechanical Engineer
Dr Keith Wanser, Physicist
Dr Noel Weeks, Ancient Historian (also has B.Sc. in Zoology)
Dr A.J. Monty White, Chemistry/Gas Kinetics
Dr Carl Wieland, Medical doctor
Dr Lara Wieland, Medical doctor
Dr Clifford Wilson, Psycholinguist and archaeologist
Dr Kurt Wise, Palaeontologist
Dr Bryant Wood, Creationist Archaeologist
Prof. Seoung-Hoon Yang, Physics
Dr Thomas (Tong Y.) Yi, Ph.D., Creationist Aerospace & Mechanical Engineering
Dr Ick-Dong Yoo, Genetics
Dr Sung-Hee Yoon, Biology
Dr Patrick Young, Chemist and Materials Scientist
Prof. Keun Bae Yu, Geography
Dr Henry Zuill, Biology

I suppose all of them are from second rate unis too?

[OnyxCougar]

Austin, Steven A., Ph.D.
Creationist Geology Professor
(USA)
Education
B.S. (Geology), University of Washington, Seattle, WA,1970
M.S. (Geology), San Jose State University, San Jose, CA, 1971
Ph.D. (Geology), Pennsylvania State University, University Park, PA, 1979
Publications
See his online (off-site) paper on Mt St Helens 'dating' from the Creation Ex Nihilo Technical Journal

Dr Donald James Batten
Creationist Agricultural Scientist
(Australia)
Research Projects Funded by External Agencies
Study tour of India and Taiwan on lychees and mangoes, 1980 (CESG)

Provision of controlled-temperature glasshouse for propagation of tropical/subtropical fruit 1983–84 (RCDF).

Control of fruit set and retention in lychee, 1987–91 (RIRDC)—with C.A. McConchie, CSIRO Div. Horticulture, Brisbane.

Overcoming problems related to poor root health in custard apple and lychee, 1990–92 (RIRDC)

Regulation of cropping in lychee, 1991–1994 (RIRDC)—with C.A. McConchie, CSIRO Div. of Horticulture, Brisbane.

Education
1969–72: B.Sc.Agr.(First Class Honours)—University of Sydney

1973–76: Ph.D.—University of Sydney, Department of Agronomy and Horticultural Science. Thesis: Induction of adventitious root formation in mung bean (Vigna radiata (L.) Wilczek)

Employment/Positions
1976–90: Research Horticulturist, NSW Agriculture, Tropical Fruit Research Station, Alstonville.

1991–1994: Senior Research Horticulturist, NSW Agriculture, Tropical Fruit Research Station, Alstonville (resigned January 1994).

1994–: Creation Science Foundation, Brisbane, Australia + private horticultural consultant.
Publications
Scientific Journals for which Papers have been Refereed
Annals of Botany, Australian Journal of Experimental Agriculture
Australian Journal of Agricultural Research
New Zealand Journal of Crop Science
Scientia Horticulturae
Tree Physiology (Canada)
Advances in Horticultural Science
Indonesian Journal of Crop Science.
Refereed Papers Published in Science Journals
Batten, D.J. and Mullins, M.G. (1978). Ethylene and adventitious root formation in hypocotyl segments of etiolated mung-bean (Vigna radiata (L.) Wilczek) seedlings. Planta 138(3): 193–8.

Batten, D.J. and Goodwin, P.B. (1981). Auxin transport inhibitors and the rooting of hypocotyl cuttings from etiolated mung-bean (Vigna radiata (L.) Wilczek) seedlings. Annals of Botany 47(4):497–505.

Peak, C.M., Fitzell, R.D., Hannah, R.S. and Batten, D.J. (1986). Development of a microprocessor-based data recording system for predicting plant disease based on studies on mango anthracnose. Computers and Electronics in Agriculture 1:251–62.

Batten, D.J. (1989). Maturity criteria for litchis (lychees). Food Quality and Preference 1(4/5):149–55

Batten, D.J. (1990). Effect of temperature on ripening and post-harvest life of fruit of atemoya (Annona cherimola Mill. x A. Squamosa L.) cv. ‘African Pride’. Scientia Horticulturae 45:129–36.

McConchie, C.A. and Batten, D.J. (1991). Fruit set in lychee (Litchi chinensis Sonn). Variation between flowers, panicles and trees. Australian Journal of Agricultural Research 42:1163–72.

Batten, D.J., Lloyd, J. and McConchie, C.A. (1992). Cultivar differences in stomatal responses in lychee (Litchi chinensis Sonn.). Australian Journal of Plant Physiology 19:317–29.

McConchie, C.A., Batten, D.J. and Vithanage, V. (1994). Intergeneric hybridisation between litchi (Litchi chinensis Sonn.) and longan (Dimocarpus longan Lour.). Annals of Botany 74:111–118.

Batten, D.J., McConchie, C.A. and Lloyd, J. (1994). Effect of soil water deficit on gas exchange characteristics and water relations of orchard lychee (Litchi chinensis Sonn.) trees. Tree Physiology 14:117–1189.

Batten, D.J. and Lahav, E. (1994). Base temperatures for growth processes of lychee, a recurrently flushing tree, are similar but optima differ. Australian Journal of Plant Physiology 21:589–602.

Fitzell, R.D., Batten, D.J. and Vimpany, I. (1994). Investigation into the cause of poor root health in custard apple. Plant Protection Quarterly 9(1):2–5.

Batten, D.J. and McConchie, C.A. (1995). Floral induction in growing buds of lychee (Litchi chinensis Sonn.) and mango (Mangifera indica L.) Australian Journal of Plant Physiology 22(5):783–791.

Duret, P., Waechter, A.-I., Hocquemiller, R., CavÇ, A. and Batten, D. (1996). Annotemoyin-1 and -2: two novel mono-tetrahydrofuranic-lactone acetogenins from the seeds of Annona atemoya. Natural Product Letters 8:89–95.

Postgraduate Theses, Books and Book Chapters
Batten, D.J. (1976). Induction of adventitious root formation in mung bean (Vigna radiata (L.) Wilczek). Ph.D. thesis, University of Sydney.

Batten, D.J. and Goodwin, P.B. (1978). Phytohormones and the induction of adventitious roots. In Letham, D.B., Goodwin, P.B. and Higgins, T.J.V. (eds.). Phytohormones and Related Compounds—A Comprehensive Treatise Vol. II pp 137–145. (Elsevier/North-Holland Biomedical Press).

Batten, D.J. (1982). Litchi. Crop No.550 in Hackett, C. and Carolane, J. (Eds). Edible Horticultural Crops—a Compendium of Information on Fruit, Vegetable, Spice and Nut Species 3 Vols. Academic Press, Sydney

Batten, D.J. (1984). Fruit Crops. In J.R. Cook (Ed.). Jojoba, Guayule or What? New Crops—Factors for Survival Aust. Inst. Agric. Science Occasional Publication No.16.

Batten, D.J. (1984). Myrtaceae–guava (Psidium guajava L.). In Tropical Tree Fruits for Australia pp. 113–20. Queensland Department of Primary Industries, Brisbane.

Batten, D.J. (1984). Myrtaceae—feijoa (Pineapple guava) Feijoa sellowiana O. Bert. In Tropical Tree Fruits for Australia pp. 121–24. Queensland Department of Primary Industries, Brisbane.

Batten, D.J. (1984). Rutaceae—white sapote (Casimiroa edulis Llave). In Tropical Tree Fruits for Australia pp. 171–4. Queensland Department of Primary Industries, Brisbane

Batten, D.J. and McConchie, C.A. (1991). Is lychee particularly drought sensitive? In Smith, M.M (ed.) Australian Lychee Yearbook Vol. 1 pp. 108–110. (Australian Lychee Growers Association, Brisbane).

McConchie, C.A., Batten, D.J. and Vivian-Smith, A. (1991). Pollination in lychee. In Smith, M.M (ed.) Australian Lychee Yearbook Vol. 1 pp. 93–96. (Australian Lychee Growers Association, Brisbane).

Proceedings of Society Meetings and Other Technical Conferences
Batten, D.J. (1977). Rootstock improvement. Proc. Aust. Avocado Research Workshop, Binna Burra, Oct. 1977, pp.46–48.

Batten, D.J. (1980). Tropical/subtropical fruit and nuts. Proc. Conf. on the Development of Coffs Harbour Botanic Gardens, Coffs Harbour Technical College, May 1980. (University of New England Press). (Invited paper)

Moncur, M.W., Rattigan, K., Batten, D.J., and Watson, B.J. (1984). Mangoes in Australia—where? Proceedings of the First Australian Mango Research Workshop, Cairns, Nov. 26–30, 1984 pp.71–76.

Batten,D.J. (1986). Towards an understanding of reproductive failure in lychee (Litchi chinensis Sonn.). Acta Horticulturae 175:79–83.

Batten, D.J. (1986). Lychee Harvesting. In The Potential of Lychee in Australia (Proc. 1st National Lychee Seminar, Nambour, February 14–15th, 1986). pp. 73–76 (Invited paper).
more...

John Baumgardner, Ph.D.
Education
B.S., Texas Tech University, Lubbock, 1968
M.S., Electrical Engineering, Princeton University, Princeton, NJ, 1970
M.S., Geophysics and Space Physics, University of California, Los Angeles, 1981
Ph.D., Geophysics and Space Physics, University of California, Los Angeles, 1983

Dr Jerry Bergman
Ph.D., Biology
Education
M.P.H., Northwest Ohio Consortium for Public Health (Medical College of Ohio, Toledo, Ohio; University of Toledo, Toledo, Ohio; Bowling Green State University, Bowling Green, Ohio), 2001.

M.S. in biomedical science, Medical College of Ohio, Toledo, Ohio, 1999.

Ph.D. in human biology, Columbia Pacific University, San Rafael, California, 1992.

M.A. in social psychology, Bowling Green State University, Bowling Green, Ohio, 1986.

Ph.D. in measurement and evaluation, minor in psychology, Wayne State University, Detroit, Michigan, 1976.

M.Ed. in counseling and psychology, Wayne State University, Detroit, Michigan, 1971.

B.S., Wayne State University, Detroit, Michigan, 1970. Major area of study was sociology, biology, and psychology.

A.A. in Biology and Behavioral Science, Oakland Community College, Bloomfield Hills, Michigan, 1967.

Honors/awards/certifications
Fellow of the American Scientific Affiliation, 1983
Who's Who in America
MENSA
Ohio certification to teach both elementary and high school levels

Dr Raymond G. Bohlin
Creationist Biologist
Education
He is a graduate of the University of Illinois and North Texas State University, and his Ph.D. is from the University of Texas.

Associate Professor of Statistics
Linn E. Carothers
(United States)

B.S., University of Southern California, University Park, 1973
M.S., California State University, Northridge, 1979
Ph.D., University of Southern California, University Park, 1987

and so on...

Of course, all of these people are obviously fucking idiots from second rate universities.

*rolls her eyes*

[OnyxCougar]

Thought this was relevant here:

‘Creation scientists aren’t real scientists and don’t do real research.’
by Dr Terry Mortenson

15 August 2003

Such statements are often heard from evolutionists when confronted with creationist objections against their theory. It is a classic ad hominem argument—in other words, attack the person in lieu of refuting his argument. But besides that, it is simply false. And the International Conference on Creationism (ICC) held near Pittsburgh, PA, USA, 3–9 August, is one piece of evidence of that fact.

Attended by 325 people, this was the fifth ICC. The Creation Science Fellowship in Pittsburgh has been organizing and hosting this conference about every four years since 1986. Its purpose is to stimulate the development and refinement of a scientifically detailed model of the origin and history of the world consistent with the truths of Genesis 1–11. Most of the 55 papers at this year’s ICC were in the Technical Track. The twelve papers in the Basic Track were designed for people wanting an introduction to the creationist view at a relatively non-technical level. Each presenter had one hour for the lecture followed by 30 minutes of Q&A.

Some of the most well attended technical papers (which were all peer-reviewed) were from the scientists in the RATE group. RATE stands for Radioisotopes and the Age of The Earth. This international group of seven scientists (with PhD’s in physics, geology, atmospheric physics and geophysics) is in the fifth year of an 8-year research project involving theoretical, laboratory and field studies. For many years creationists have cited plenty of evidence that these dating methods are not reliable, but this current research is trying to establish just what these decay processes are telling us. The RATE scientists presented some very exciting research results that will strengthen Christians’ confidence in the literal truth of Genesis and put evolutionists on the defensive on this issue.

Besides the RATE papers, there were presentations on the place of caves in the post-Flood world, Fibonacci numbers in nature, tree-ring dating, worldwide myths about Creation and the Flood, creation of elements from water, cutting edge research on nautiloid fossils in Grand Canyon, the 19th century origin of old-earth geology, Hebrew and geological analysis of Genesis 7–8, the historical roots of the idea of progress, biological classification of the original created kinds and many other interesting topics.

In addition to papers during the day, evening sessions were open to the public. On the first night Dr John Morris, president of the Institute for Creation Research, addressed the necessary future of creation science. Later in the week, Ken Ham, founder/president of AiG–USA, gave a powerful message to about 600 people on the foundational importance and practical relevance of the origins issue, and in particular the significance of scientific research in the ‘big picture.’

At least one staunch evolutionist attended the conference. He was so impressed with the scientific excellence of the papers that he admitted to one of the presenters that he was going to have to do some hard thinking about what he heard. He also lamented the fact that more evolutionists were not there to hear the results of creationist research.

There is one other strange thing about the evolutionists’ charge that creation scientists are not real scientists doing real research. That is the fact that all these creation scientists obtained their PhDs under the tutelage of evolutionists, in some cases quite prominent evolutionists. So by labeling creationists as non-scientists the evolutionists are actually attacking the scientific and teaching competencies of their fellow evolutionists!

[jaguar]

ohh I'm impressed, a long list of names!
easier than a rebuttal.

i randomly picked a name. Dr Kurt Wise. For reference I he was the first I picked, totally at random. Well lookey here, he got is 'doctorate' from Bryan, a college that 'puts christ above all'. Well well. There was Dr Harold Coffin, at the presdigious and well known 'Southwestern Adventist University'. Hmmm. Theme emerging here. Dr James A. Huggins, Union University - A Southern Baptist University that seems to have gone under to boot. I tried a few others, the only information was more and more copies of this oh-so-impressive list. For none could I actually find their dissertation paper. Tried the ATHENS system for accessing papers, nothing. I didn't bother checking out the plain old medical doctors which you amusingly seem to think is the same. Or the plastic surgeons. Or dentists. Despite it being common knowledge that plastic surgeons are all experts in palaeontology and geology.

A list of doctors and doctorates doesn't make you any more wrong, it just doesn't mean you're quite as alone. Anyone that's attented a major university knows they all have a fair share of kooks and oddities, I associate with a fair few people particularly from Cambridge and some of the strange characters they know of.... The point is that this list doesn't make any difference. Creationism has no scientific basis and the arguments against evolution either rely of falicies or on gaps on the fossil record.

[jaguar]

oh boy...you just keep banging on. An article from Dr Terry Morton, who got is masters from Trinity Evangelical Divinity School! Talking about Ken Ham! Who doesn't understand geology! peer-reviewed! Impressive. By who?

Also worth noting two of the guys I checked out converted long after they had their PH.Ds. I could find no evidence that any had obtained a PH.D in areas relevent to that gorgeous oxymoron, 'creationist science'.

[jaguar]

At any rate, I'm out, too much work over the next few days to waste this much time waxing lyrical about the silliness of of this debate. I hope I've at least demonstrated to some that despite the pretty website and big words sites like AiG are as scientific as they are objective.

[Happy Monkey]

Its purpose is to stimulate the development and refinement of a scientifically detailed model of the origin and history of the world consistent with the truths of Genesis 1–11.

Someone doesn't know how science works...

[OnyxCougar]

and this:

Q: Do creation scientists publish in secular journals?
We referred this question to Dr D. Russell Humphreys (pictured), a nuclear physicist who works at Sandia National Laboratories. Dr Humphreys says he has often had this question put to him. He writes:


‘When people ask me this, I feel a certain amount of frustration because of the evolutionist brainwashing in our society which it reveals.

‘Firstly, it shows that the questioner is unaware of the large number of published professional scientists who are creationists. Where I live and work (Albuquerque, New Mexico) there are large numbers of scientists, and I know many who happen to be biblical creationists. Using a simple statistical approach, I would conservatively estimate that in the United States alone, there are around 10,000 practising professional scientists who openly believe in six-day recent creation.

‘Secondly, it suggests that the questioner doesn’t understand what the day-to-day life of a scientist is all about. One could almost say that publication in professional journals is the essence of being a scientist. So asking a man who says he is a scientist if he’s published in secular journals is like asking a man who says he’s married if he’s got a wife!

‘I would therefore reply to such a question ‘Are there any who don’t?’ Every one I know does publish. Even scientists who are full-time in creationist organisations usually have a few such publications, despite the serious disadvantage their institutional connections give them. Although there is strong discrimination against high-profile creationist scientists, most creationist scientists publish non-creationist scientific articles frequently. Moreover, many of them have published data with important creationist implications—but without explicit creationist conclusions, which would point out the significance of the data to the average non-creationist scientist.

‘What about creationist scientists publishing articles, in secular journals, which specifically come to creationist conclusions? The bitter experience of a number of us has made it clear that there is almost no chance that such articles will pass the review process, no matter what their quality. I have also had repeated correspondence with the letters editors of major journals, having submitted brief, well-written items which critiqued published conclusions favourable to long-agers or ‘big-bangers’. These contained no explicit creationist connotations, but I have concluded that, now that I am known as a creationist, such items have virtually no chance of publication.’

That’s why creationists have had to develop their own peer-reviewed journals, such as the Creation Research Society Quarterly and the Creation Ex Nihilo Technical Journal. Some creationist scientists are world leaders in their field, like geophysicist Dr John Baumgardner of Los Alamos Laboratories, in the field of plate tectonics [see interview Creation 19(3):40–43, 1997].

For a more detailed answer see Do Creationists Publish in Notable Refereed Journals? For details on some creationist scientists and their publication records, check out the Biographies section of the website.

[OnyxCougar]

Originally Posted by jaguar

ohh I'm impressed, a long list of names!
easier than a rebuttal.

i randomly picked a name. Dr Kurt Wise. For reference I he was the first I picked, totally at random. Well lookey here, he got is 'doctorate' from Bryan, a college that 'puts christ above all'. Well well. There was Dr Harold Coffin, at the presdigious and well known 'Southwestern Adventist University'. Hmmm. Theme emerging here. Dr James A. Huggins, Union University - A Southern Baptist University that seems to have gone under to boot. I tried a few others, the only information was more and more copies of this oh-so-impressive list. For none could I actually find their dissertation paper. Tried the ATHENS system for accessing papers, nothing. I didn't bother checking out the plain old medical doctors which you amusingly seem to think is the same. Or the plastic surgeons. Or dentists. Despite it being common knowledge that plastic surgeons are all experts in palaeontology and geology.

A list of doctors and doctorates doesn't make you any more wrong, it just doesn't mean you're quite as alone. Anyone that's attented a major university knows they all have a fair share of kooks and oddities, I associate with a fair few people particularly from Cambridge and some of the strange characters they know of.... The point is that this list doesn't make any difference. Creationism has no scientific basis and the arguments against evolution either rely of falicies or on gaps on the fossil record.

OK, so the ones from the "better" universities are kooks, and the ones from "less than top rate" univerisities are well...less just say they aren't qualified.

Riiiiiiight.

[jaguar]

No. There are literally millions of PH.Ds globally, a list like this is meaningless. If they believe this crap they're no doubt kooks of one sort or another. It's just amusing that so many come from funny little religious indoctrination centres masquerading as unis.

[xoxoxoBruce]

UT, I'd like to apologize for sending you that picture.

[warch]

There are dinosaur tracks on the University of Texas, Austin's campus, near the natural history museum. You can go stand in them.

If we dont teach science, and by that I mean evolution, we are risking our economic future.

[mlandman]

Originally Posted by OnyxCougar

No, I don't mind if people think I'm full of shit, but I have valid, solid reasons for my beliefs, not because I was indoctrinated in them, but because I looked and reserched lots of different points of views and made a personal decision on what's right for me.

It is those last 10 words that sum up the situation here. Faced with a controversial topic, you have chosen what is right for you and your beliefs and your value system.

You are also wrong about carbon dating and other methods that clearly put human bones thousands and thousands of years before the Bible says man came to be. You can say that these methods are inaccurate, clearly you have made another personal decision on the matter.

-mike

[wolf]

I don't know whether to be impressed by or fearful of OC's single minded devotion to this topic.

And her ability to cut and paste.

[jaguar]

Bruce - I started it, if anyone is to blame, it's me. The cutting and pasting is impressive but it's a poor substitute for knowing what you're talking about. The conspirital tone is the real giveaway 'the evil atheitest scientific journals are keeping us down!', what a fucking joke. The kind of journals he's talking about are if anything, the paragon of understanding and fairness.

I've got a friend that works doing x-ray crystallography at a research lab attached to Cambridge, they usually publish in smaller more topic-specific journals but one paper was important enough to be submitted to Nature. It got rejected, along with the 99% of papers submitted to Nature each month. 2 months later they got a letter from Nature and a full apology for overlooking it, the paper was published the following month. They are always on the lookout for sensational new work, if it was, it'd be published.

To suggest these institutions are involved in some kind of vast conspiricy to keep all this 'scientific' evidence of 'intelligent design' (for not-very-intelligent people) down is frankly, beyond the pale. If the paper is coming to non-scientific conclusions (therefore...GOD MADE THE EARTH IN 6 DAYS!) or is clearly pushing an agenda of course it's going to be rejected, such rubbish falls well outside what the conclusion should contain. This is commonplace from papers for all sorts of lobbies, from mobile phone safety to GM.