Here comes Bush.

[xoxoxoBruce]

You don't believe this article, Jag? It claims that Bush is really making the decisions, but of course it's based on what "they" present him as options.

[DanaC]

I read somewhere he doesnt like to read his briefings, he has them read to him. I also read he doesnt like to start work until 10 am, but in all fairness I cannot verify the articles credentials

[lookout123]

i heard he had his 2nd state of the union address written by a 3 headed alien from zandar.

[garnet]

Originally Posted by lookout123

i heard he had his 2nd state of the union address written by a 3 headed alien from zandar.

No, the alien was from MARS, not Zandar, silly. I heard it on Fox news.

[Trilby]

The aliens who run the US government are Kang and Kodos. And you people think you're informed! Sheesh!

[alphageek31337]

It won't make a difference in two weeks, anyway....the Vogons are coming.

[DanaC]

Arg! with their ship hanging in th the air in precisely the way a brick doesnt!

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Arg! with their ship hanging in th the air in precisely the way a brick doesnt!

Forget what I said in the other thread about your command of the English language.

[slang]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Slang, dont take this as in any way an insult or challenge but just a matter of curiosity on my part.

I just found this.

Thanks for trying to be delicate here but it's ok, I understand that people feel much differently than I do on this issue. I can only dry fire a pistol at the computer screen, so you're safe. This is the internet....no danger.

Originally Posted by DanaC

I can understand not holding it against him personally, but would you not prefer a President who was ...well....more intelligent and articulate?

The man can't speak. There's no arguing that point. Is he intelligent? I would guess that the majority of people here would say no. I would also guess that the majority of those people didnt graduate from Yale. Yes, I know, Dick Cheney bought Bush's way through.....whup, no, his daddy. It's hard to unwravel all the different variations.

Yes, to the masses that think he's a dumbass, in some ways I can see your point. I don't think that he's stupid but you'll never agree. So where does that leave us.....no win, all around.

There are some of us that believe that the polished bullshit that many of the popular politicians display is nice to look at but only flash and style without substance. Kerry would be a good example of that. He contradicted himself in the debates several times, and even studdered but the news doesnt re-re-re-re-run those sound bits like they would if it was Bush. They don't like him, everyone know this and they tilt the news, select the more unflattering photos, and play less than perfect soundbites endlessly of Bush getting tongue tied.

If you were to listen consistently to WABC radio, you would hear Kerry sounding just as fucking stupid *sometimes* as Bush is made out to sound, all the time. It just depends on what the audience wants.

Originally Posted by DanaC

Does Bush seem to you an acceptable example of the Creme de la creme of your countrymen?

You are making the assumption that I want an elitist. I don't. I want someone in office that reflects my values and beliefs. Bush is relatable to a large number of common folk. Yes, he is rich but doesnt have that same fakeness that many of the pols have today. I don't want someone so obviously fake looking as a pres. I don't screw with my hair and have all the right Clintonesque hand gestures, the lip biting, the contorting of the simplest words into something different that the obvious, all that show biz shit. We see all that as phony and dont care for it in the leader.


Some poeple arent into all the flash and want substance. Many feel that Bush does just fine in this respect. I am one of them. One of millions.

How many millions? We will know that in a few days.

[richlevy]

Originally Posted by slang

The man can't speak. There's no arguing that point. Is he intelligent? I would guess that the majority of people here would say no. I would also guess that the majority of those people didnt graduate from Yale. Yes, I know, Dick Cheney bought Bush's way through.....whup, no, his daddy. It's hard to unwravel all the different variations.

Bush was a bit of a wild thing in his college and post-college days. I have heard a lot of biased and less-biased accounts that agree that he was not a great scholar. He certainly couldn't get into law school. Here is a very biased and less biased account of his education.

The Bush campaigns account of his education, like his service in Project PULL gloss over what appears to be a lack of focus for GWB. The impression he later gave of himself was someone who was self-destructive until he found God and met his wife.

Here is what appears to be a largely largely unbiased assessment of GWB's intelligence and character. It supports your view that Bush that he is smarter than he looks.

There are some of us that believe that the polished bullshit that many of the popular politicians display is nice to look at but only flash and style without substance. Kerry would be a good example of that. He contradicted himself in the debates several times, and even studdered but the news doesnt re-re-re-re-run those sound bits like they would if it was Bush. They don't like him, everyone know this and they tilt the news, select the more unflattering photos, and play less than perfect soundbites endlessly of Bush getting tongue tied.

You seem to have missed a point. If Bush is really smarter than he appears, and if his country bumpkinism is an act, then it is also flash and style. You are turned off by Kerry's intellectual attitude and like Bush's folksy style. You appear to assume the one you dislike is false and the one that you like is genuine, but don't seem to realize that both are to some degree fake. Bush is a Yale graduate with an estimated 129 IQ who cannot pronounce nuclear in any way acceptable to anyone in the world except people who belong to a small but significant voting bloc. Coincidence?

Bush is not stupid, he is deliberately ignorant. He has the raw intelligence to handle the information he is given, but it is possible the same ideological stringency which saved his life also prevents him from accepting other points of view. Kerry appears to take the time to consider many points of view, and even adjust his path accordingly. Taken too far, this would result in indecision. Bush's problem, taken to far, would result in an inability to avoid danger, a mental lemming.

As for coverage, I watched all four debates from end to end. Did you? On style Bush tanked the first debate. An example of how he really is smart is that he did at that one point learn from his mistakes and did better the second and third time, without, of course, admitting that he made any mistakes. The President's mistakes are scrutinzed more closely because he is the President. This is the downside of being number one. The upside is, if he ever has anything substantive to say, personally or through his press secretary, he has a ready audience. The fact that this adminstration has the lowest number of press conferences of any recent president , especially one involved in as many crises as this one, is his fault. Don't blame the press for trying to find nuances when he does speak to fill in the vaccum.

More importantly, once the candidates stopped reciting their talking points, which they both did, you could see clear differences in them. Kerry sees many points and sometimes dodges. Bush goes straight ahead, no matter what he sees. Who would be the better leader or react better in a crisis. We know Kerry fought in Vietnam, and killed people. He did not appear to hesistate. When he came back he listened to other points of view and joined the anti-war movement. This is not waffling or flip-flopping. This is thinking and making decisions. Bush was never tested in combat, but I wouldn't want to be in his platoon. Imagine an officer who skims or ignores briefings which do not match his preconceptions. George Custer comes to mind.

If you were to listen consistently to WABC radio, you would hear Kerry sounding just as fucking stupid *sometimes* as Bush is made out to sound, all the time. It just depends on what the audience wants.

If I was to listen consistently to WABC radio, I would drop a few IQ points and start to grow hair in new and unusual places. If you don't want to listen to the liberals on NPR, at least consider MSNBC.

You are making the assumption that I want an elitist. I don't. I want someone in office that reflects my values and beliefs. Bush is relatable to a large number of common folk. Yes, he is rich but doesnt have that same fakeness that many of the pols have today. I don't want someone so obviously fake looking as a pres. I don't screw with my hair and have all the right Clintonesque hand gestures, the lip biting, the contorting of the simplest words into something different that the obvious, all that show biz shit. We see all that as phony and dont care for it in the leader.

I think I already addressed the concept that they are both phony. I would be happy to pick a plain speaking populist if it were Teddy Roosevelt, Calvin Coolidge, or even Huey Long. These were plain speaking, smart, comptetent men. One or two of them were scrupulously honest and all of them seemed to work for their constituents.

Some poeple arent into all the flash and want substance. Many feel that Bush does just fine in this respect. I am one of them. One of millions.

How many millions? We will know that in a few days.

The only substance I have been able to glean from Bush are tax cuts and the Gay marriage amendment. The first reflects a buy now-pay later philosophy which also seems to drive Bush's economic policy. The second is a blatant attempt to suck up to a core constituency that thankfully will never get passed.

One idea that I have heard that I would dearly not want to believe is that there are a significant minority of people who believe that the end is coming and the good will be saved, so it is ok to use up everything. I heard that it was this group that formed an alliance with anti-environmental business interests and that that is how this new fundamentalism has been funded (no pun intended). It just seems to me that Bush's policies are so short term and unsustainable that I have to wonder if he hasn't bought into this.

I have never believed that Bush's faith has been faked any more than I believe that Kerry's anti-war stance was for political gain. I just have to wonder which articles of faith Bush adheres to.

Millions will decide, and the Republican party will have to examine itself.

These are my opinions, and you are obviously welcome to your own. No hard feelings.

[tw]

Originally Posted by DanaC

I read somewhere he doesnt like to read his briefings, he has them read to him. I also read he doesnt like to start work until 10 am, but in all fairness I cannot verify the articles credentials

George Jr did not read the 6 Aug Presidential Daily Briefing. He believes, instead, in being briefed in person. He says he needs to see the 'body language". The DCI (Director of Central Intelligence) would spend (waste) about 3 hours every day driving over to the White House to personally brief the President. That leaves George Tenent with only 5 productive hours every day. Since George Tenent only added another person in the game of Telephone (first person whispers in the 2nd ear, who in turn whispers the message to a third, etc until the fourth perons has little idea what the message really is), then how does George Jr get a valid briefing? Does it matter? George Jr often does not remember details even in verbal briefings.

In one debate, George Jr said something about the FBI Director is in his office every day for a briefing. Again, when does George Jr instead read facts as written right from the knowledgable source - in the memo? Instead he has the FBI Director wasting time verbally briefing him?

No, George Jr does not read his own memos. And Sec of Treasury Paul O'Neil says even his meeting are pre-arraigned scripts - where everyone is told a day in advance when he will speak, what he will say, and how long he has to speak. Why?

11 Sept made it obvious that George Jr does not make the decisions. Have been asking this question for some time now. Who makes the decisions? At one point, I suspected it was a combination of Rice, Rove, Rumsfeld, and Cheney. However the latest press leaks about how this administration intentionally tried to violate international law (Laws don't apply to US) makes it obvious that list is even shorter.

Clearly Powell is often cut out of decision making. Powell obviously is not on the campaign trail. Speculation says Powell is probably only months from resigning for many reasons being leaked from both civilian and military sides. Powell is too centrist to be trusted by the insider extremists who are taking a seige mentality. Powell was also not a founding member of the Project for a New American Century. Powell is not one who makes George Jr decisions. Powell is often in confrontation with both Cheney and Rumsfeld.

The latest documents (see the post entitled "Laws don't apply to US") demonstrate that Rice was extremely furious when she also was cut out of the intentional 'violation of domestic and international laws' decision. That says Rice is not on the inside track.

Rove was in FL being just as indesicive as everyone else when Goerge Jr just sat there for seven minutes waiting to be told what to do. Rove may make political decisions. But Rove alone is not telling George Jr what to decide.

This leaves only one person who really makes the decisions. Acting President Cheney. Powell expresses this in Woodward's book. Everytime a major decision is made, first everyone leaves the room except Cheney. After George Jr has consulted privately with Cheney, only then does George Jr announces his decision. George Jr could not even testify before the 9/11 Commission without Cheney at his side.

The real president, by process of elimination and by who George Jr talks to just before making all decisions (including where to take Air Force One on 11 September) is Cheney. Dick Cheney is, for all practical purposes, the President of the United States with his front man being George Jr.

[tw]

Originally Posted by richlevy

Here is what appears to be a largely largely unbiased assessment of GWB's intelligence and character. It supports your view that Bush that he is smarter than he looks.

Michael Jordan is also a genius. His brain makes him a great athlete. But would Michael Jordan make a great leader? No. His genius is in a different part of his brain. He's not dumb. But if he was a leader, then he would be coaching.

Even in George Jr's own autobiography (very selective, disjointed, and self serving - but it demonstrates the point), it is obvious where George Jr's intelligence lies. He would campaign in a town, and leave remembering everyone's name. When it comes to making a good impression, George Jr is a genius. He is the perfect front man for Cheney. But George Jr does not have nor tries to gain the life experience necessary to be a decision maker.

George Jr was an excellent partier. He is the perfect politician who is fun to be with. A genius as a salesman who knows nothing about the product but can still make the sale. He is the perfect promoter - a front man - to represent the many Texas Ranger (baseball) owners. But the man has never run a successful company. But the same man does not know what countries are on Israel's borders? George Jr's entire knowledge of the world is 1.5 year indoctrination by Rice and Wolfovitz. This does not make an intelligent leader.

Karl Rove found a perfect man to handle (ie Robert Redford? in the movie The Politician?). George Jr's genius is in being a front man. His history has long been 'know no facts'. George Jr is a promtion genius He promotes an anti-missile system that does not work. He promotes a tax cut that violated fundamental economic principles. He promotes a war on lie after lie. He even lets bin Laden go free - and most Americans never even noticed.

When it comes to comprehension of facts, George does not have sufficient knowledge to be intelligent. It explains why he must consult privately with Cheney before making every decision.

[slang]

That last reply was a good one, Rich. You consistently post rational comments with references and I like your style. I've also met you in person and you're a likeable guy with a sense of humor. I read and learn from your posts though we are very different people.

Forgive me for not responding to each of your points. Once a thread turns into a reading and writing project, I lose interest. I post this.....someone else posts that....we go back and forth and each time the comments get more involved with explainations and source info. That's not why I'm here.

I'm here for the humor. So bring it on!

[richlevy]

Originally Posted by slang

I'm here for the humor. So bring it on!

You mean like

Bush, Kerry, and a duck walk into a bar.
Kerry says "You guys order first, I can't decide between a whisky and beer".
Bush says "I'll have a glass of champagne. I don't care if you have it or not, I want champagne".
The bartender turns to the duck and says "Why do you hang out with these guys. One can't make up his mind and the other one keeps asking for something we don't have".
"You're telling me," says the duck, "and the worst part is I get stuck with the bill".

BTW, I just made this one up. I hope you liked it.

[slang]

Ba-doom-tshhh.


Oh, you made that one up. Nice.