Please to explain for the hard of understanding... - Page 4

xoxoxoBruce · 08-10-2014, 01:01 PM

Agreed, different strokes for different folks. What are the Red Socks doing in Michigan?

In PA open carry is defacto legal because there is no law against it... except, it's a no-no in first class cities. That's Philly and Pittsburgh. But that doesn't cover in a car, which is clearly outlawed without a permit but for a few exceptions.

I have a CC permit but very rarely do, I know I haven't in the last 5 years. Partly because living at the junction of three states, it's easy to forget and wouldn't want to get caught out of state. The other reason is I don't feel it's necessary, in the environment I travel I rarely feel threatened.
Sure, you never know what evil lurks, but I don't have a meteor proof umbrella either.

So why did I just renew my permit? because if I want to take a gun somewhere, to a friends, or whatever, I don't have to worry about jumping through the hoops required by the state in the 126 pages of title 18.

glatt · 08-10-2014, 01:45 PM

I was on a jury here in VA, which is a pretty gun friendly state, where the prosecutors were going after a guy for allegedly carrying a gun into an elementary school. The witness who saw him walk in with a gun was not remotely credible, but when the cops caught up with him later, he had his gun locked in the trunk. Only problem was according to VA law as read to us by the judge, it needed to be in a locked case in his trunk, not in the duffel bag it was in. Plus he admitted that he had driven to the school to pick up his kid, and driving onto school property with a gun in the car was also illegal. So he accepted some plea deal, and I couldn't set him free like I was planning to.

Having a gun is dangerous for more reasons than may be obvious. In some places, you can't even bring a gun to within a certain distance of a school, which means that as you drive around town with a gun, you need to keep in mind where all the schools are and stay the appropriate distance away. That might mean you can't use any of the major roads through town.

Gravdigr · 08-10-2014, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Partly because living at the junction of three states, it's easy to forget and wouldn't want to get caught out of state.

CCW reciprocity?

xoxoxoBruce · 08-10-2014, 08:02 PM

No, PA has reciprocity agreements of some kind with something like 20 states.
Neighbors, NJ and DE. Fuck you PA.

NJ I can almost understand as they don't want the Philly gangsters packing to Atlantic City and the jersey shore. But since when do gangsters care about the law?

Delaware, born and raised on gunpowder revenue, I don't understand.

Gravdigr · 08-23-2014, 12:30 PM

Just ran across this, a minute ago.

From here.

Name: map of open carry.jpg
Views: 203
Size: 94.3 KB

glatt · 08-23-2014, 12:34 PM

WTF is up with Texas on this? I thought they would have the most liberal gun laws, not the most restrictive.

Clodfobble · 08-23-2014, 05:34 PM

That's handguns only. You can open carry a shotgun or rifle just fine.

sexobon · 08-27-2014, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glatt

WTF is up with Texas on this? I thought they would have the most liberal gun laws, not the most restrictive.

It seems Arizona has rather liberal gun laws. A 9 year old girl just got her first kill with an UZI.

PHOENIX (AP) — The accidental shooting death of a firing-range instructor by a 9-year-old girl with an Uzi has set off a powerful debate over youngsters and guns, with many people wondering what sort of parents would let a child handle a submachine gun.

Instructor Charles Vacca, 39, was standing next to the girl Monday at the Last Stop range in White Hills, Arizona, about 60 miles south of Las Vegas, when she squeezed the trigger. The recoil wrenched the Uzi upward, and Vacca was shot in the head. ...

... Sam Scarmardo, who operates the outdoor range in the desert, said Wednesday that the parents had signed waivers saying they understood the rules and were standing nearby, video-recording their daughter, when the accident happened. ...

... He said he doesn't know what went wrong, pointing out that Vacca was an Army veteran of Iraq and Afghanistan. ...

Pamela · 08-27-2014, 08:41 PM

Was the weapon actually a select-fire variant? Or was it semi-auto? The article didn't say, or at least the blurb didn't. An UZI is not necessarily an smg and it rankles me that the news media never seem to get that detail right.

sexobon · 08-27-2014, 09:09 PM

There are places to go for full auto fire. That aspect of firing range services caters to thrill seekers. It's like an amusement park ride for them. I suspect that to be the case. It's unlikely the muzzle rise would have been so great in semi-automatic fire. It is possible that, with a weak hold on the weapon, it could repeatedly recoil against the trigger finger and simulate fully automatic fire. I've seen that happen IRL with a limp wrist hold on a semi-automatic pistol. Such a fluke; however, would almost certainly have been identified as the cause.

glatt · 08-27-2014, 09:14 PM

The story and video I saw showed that the girl shot one round in semi mode and then the instructor switched it to full auto. The sheriffs office edited the video to stop there, but the accident happened right after it was switched to full auto. (The parents were filming the whole thing.). That poor child. She'll be messed up for a while.

DanaC · 08-28-2014, 02:15 AM

God, what a nightmare. Poor kid, poor parents and poor instructor.

The report I read said he was standing slightly off to the side (haven't seen video clip so don't know how accurate that is). Would it not be more usual to stand behind in such a situation?

Also: I can understand letting kids shoot guns at a range; but surely a gun with such a big kick is unsuitable for a child that young? Just in terms of being able to keep the damn thing straight. They need one of those fairground ride signs that have a height line to stop the littles getting on rides they could just slip out from.

glatt · 08-28-2014, 07:24 AM

Well, I think the parents and the instructor were adults, and while this is very tragic, they are capable of making an informed decision. The kid is innocent in all of this. I try not to judge other parents because we are all just trying to do our best, but handing a fully automatic machine gun to a 9 year old girl doesn't seem like a wise thing to do.

There is a small industry 0f these types of places where you can rent equipment that you could never otherwise use. They have race cars you can run around a track for a few laps, heavy construction equipment in big dirt lots that you can rent by the hour just to play, and of course these fairly exotic guns. The whole idea is that novices get to use the real equipment. I think it's a cool idea, but obviously they need to work out a few safety kinks.

At Cub Scout camps here, the under 11 year old can only fire bb guns. But when they join Boy Scouts at age 11-12, they are allowed to fire single bolt action 22 rifles. Once they reach 14, they are allowed to fire shotguns. This is all with close supervision. I think those are more reasonable ages, and even then, you need to make sure the boys firing shotguns are strong enough to hold one.

Sundae · 08-28-2014, 08:05 AM

The range is called Bullets and Burgers.
Nice.

Quote in the paper today by Sam Scarmado (who I assume is something to do with the range) "I have regret we let this child shoot, and I have regret that Charlie was killed."

I hope English isn't his first language, because that reads as rather dismissive otherwise.
I had regret that I eat Big Mac. At least no-one die when I did that

(except some cows which were probably Bad Cows anyway)

henry quirk · 08-28-2014, 10:41 AM

"he doesn't know what went wrong"

Seems to me: what went wrong was the instructor overestimated the capacity of the kid.

Poor assessment on his part.

*shrug*

#

"Bad Cows"

ALL cows are BAD.

Eat them.

08-10-2014, 01:01 PM	#46
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Agreed, different strokes for different folks. What are the Red Socks doing in Michigan? In PA open carry is defacto legal because there is no law against it... except, it's a no-no in first class cities. That's Philly and Pittsburgh. But that doesn't cover in a car, which is clearly outlawed without a permit but for a few exceptions. I have a CC permit but very rarely do, I know I haven't in the last 5 years. Partly because living at the junction of three states, it's easy to forget and wouldn't want to get caught out of state. The other reason is I don't feel it's necessary, in the environment I travel I rarely feel threatened. Sure, you never know what evil lurks, but I don't have a meteor proof umbrella either. So why did I just renew my permit? because if I want to take a gun somewhere, to a friends, or whatever, I don't have to worry about jumping through the hoops required by the state in the 126 pages of title 18. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

08-10-2014, 08:02 PM	#49
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	No, PA has reciprocity agreements of some kind with something like 20 states. Neighbors, NJ and DE. Fuck you PA. NJ I can almost understand as they don't want the Philly gangsters packing to Atlantic City and the jersey shore. But since when do gangsters care about the law? Delaware, born and raised on gunpowder revenue, I don't understand. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

08-23-2014, 12:30 PM	#50
Gravdigr The Un-Tuckian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: South Central...KY that is Posts: 39,517	Just ran across this, a minute ago. From here. __________________ These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA, EPA, FBI, DEA, CDC, or FDIC. These statements are not intended to diagnose, cause, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. If you feel you have been harmed/offended by, or, disagree with any of the above statements or images, please feel free to fuck right off.

08-23-2014, 05:34 PM	#52
Clodfobble UNDER CONDITIONAL MITIGATION Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 20,012	That's handguns only. You can open carry a shotgun or rifle just fine. __________________ My book My other book My spirit animal

08-27-2014, 09:14 PM	#56
glatt ™ Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 27,717	Please to explain for the hard of understanding... The story and video I saw showed that the girl shot one round in semi mode and then the instructor switched it to full auto. The sheriffs office edited the video to stop there, but the accident happened right after it was switched to full auto. (The parents were filming the whole thing.). That poor child. She'll be messed up for a while.

08-10-2014, 01:45 PM	#47
glatt ™ Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 27,717	I was on a jury here in VA, which is a pretty gun friendly state, where the prosecutors were going after a guy for allegedly carrying a gun into an elementary school. The witness who saw him walk in with a gun was not remotely credible, but when the cops caught up with him later, he had his gun locked in the trunk. Only problem was according to VA law as read to us by the judge, it needed to be in a locked case in his trunk, not in the duffel bag it was in. Plus he admitted that he had driven to the school to pick up his kid, and driving onto school property with a gun in the car was also illegal. So he accepted some plea deal, and I couldn't set him free like I was planning to. Having a gun is dangerous for more reasons than may be obvious. In some places, you can't even bring a gun to within a certain distance of a school, which means that as you drive around town with a gun, you need to keep in mind where all the schools are and stay the appropriate distance away. That might mean you can't use any of the major roads through town.

08-23-2014, 12:34 PM	#51
glatt ™ Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 27,717	WTF is up with Texas on this? I thought they would have the most liberal gun laws, not the most restrictive.

08-27-2014, 08:41 PM	#54
Pamela Deplorable Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 767	Was the weapon actually a select-fire variant? Or was it semi-auto? The article didn't say, or at least the blurb didn't. An UZI is not necessarily an smg and it rankles me that the news media never seem to get that detail right.

08-27-2014, 09:09 PM	#55
sexobon I love it when a plan comes together. Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 9,793	There are places to go for full auto fire. That aspect of firing range services caters to thrill seekers. It's like an amusement park ride for them. I suspect that to be the case. It's unlikely the muzzle rise would have been so great in semi-automatic fire. It is possible that, with a weak hold on the weapon, it could repeatedly recoil against the trigger finger and simulate fully automatic fire. I've seen that happen IRL with a limp wrist hold on a semi-automatic pistol. Such a fluke; however, would almost certainly have been identified as the cause.

08-28-2014, 07:24 AM	#58
glatt ™ Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 27,717	Well, I think the parents and the instructor were adults, and while this is very tragic, they are capable of making an informed decision. The kid is innocent in all of this. I try not to judge other parents because we are all just trying to do our best, but handing a fully automatic machine gun to a 9 year old girl doesn't seem like a wise thing to do. There is a small industry 0f these types of places where you can rent equipment that you could never otherwise use. They have race cars you can run around a track for a few laps, heavy construction equipment in big dirt lots that you can rent by the hour just to play, and of course these fairly exotic guns. The whole idea is that novices get to use the real equipment. I think it's a cool idea, but obviously they need to work out a few safety kinks. At Cub Scout camps here, the under 11 year old can only fire bb guns. But when they join Boy Scouts at age 11-12, they are allowed to fire single bolt action 22 rifles. Once they reach 14, they are allowed to fire shotguns. This is all with close supervision. I think those are more reasonable ages, and even then, you need to make sure the boys firing shotguns are strong enough to hold one.

08-28-2014, 08:05 AM	#59
Sundae polaroid of perfection Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 24,185	The range is called Bullets and Burgers. Nice. Quote in the paper today by Sam Scarmado (who I assume is something to do with the range) "I have regret we let this child shoot, and I have regret that Charlie was killed." I hope English isn't his first language, because that reads as rather dismissive otherwise. I had regret that I eat Big Mac. At least no-one die when I did that (except some cows which were probably Bad Cows anyway)

08-28-2014, 10:41 AM	#60
henry quirk maskless: yesterday, today, tomorrow Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 2,162	"he doesn't know what went wrong" Seems to me: what went wrong was the instructor overestimated the capacity of the kid. Poor assessment on his part. shrug # "Bad Cows" ALL cows are BAD. Eat them.

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