About at my journey's end

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by BigV

OF COURSE, deciding to communicate via email while bumping elbows over the sink at tooth brushing time is ridiculous.

There are times when I've done it, though. It accomplishes what you've said, plus there's a sense of importance when you see something in writing. My wife sometimes does not hear what I say, and this technique does make a difference. On the other hand, we're now in counselling.

[Pico and ME]

Originally Posted by footfootfoot

I realize tonight and after talking with my doc that for real a 3rd person needs to be present when we talk since there is a big reality problem.

Things did not end up great for the kids tonight and the level of response was disproportionate to the (perceived) offenses.

Just super sucky.

This sort of sounds like me while I was going menopausal. Just off the chart blow ups. The boys just weathered the storms. I'm so glad that's done.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Pico and ME

This sort of sounds like me while I was going menopausal. Just off the chart blow ups. The boys just weathered the storms. I'm so glad that's done.

That's such a good point, although f3 says it's happened forever. But if there's any chance homegirl is menopausal, that might explain why it's now that you can't take anymore and maybe give you hope for a better future.....

I heard/read/whatever that the three times when moms/daughters don't get on is daughter puberty and menopause of both.

[BigV]

Originally Posted by footfootfoot

I realize tonight and after talking with my doc that for real a 3rd person needs to be present when we talk since there is a big reality problem.

Things did not end up great for the kids tonight and the level of response was disproportionate to the (perceived) offenses.

Just super sucky.

they have a name for this, it's called counseling.

Have you been to counseling together before? It can also be called mediation, before or during divorce. I've been through all these, and I can report that they have widely varying degrees of efficacy. Very much depends on the skill of the people involved and even more so, the degree to which each party is willing to be changed. Coming from a bad situation, it's reasonable to expect a desire to change. Unfortunately, that change is most often desired to occur in the other person. *Sigh*.

I can remember when I felt Tink and I needed an interpreter or a referee. Those were bad days. I bring this up to show you my empathy creds, not to make this about me. Keep talking man.

[BigV]

I'd like to expand on my remarks.

Writing down what is on your mind and on your heart is an excellent way to communicate. It does have some complications. It is not very spontaneous compared to oral communication. There's no guarantee that the recipient will read it or understand it. Written communication misses many of the nuances of face to face communication where non verbal communication can be as rich as the words being spoken. Please note I say complications, not disadvantages.

In my experience, being less spontaneous was often an advantage since it gave me the time to deliberately compose my thoughts. Speaking in anger has almost always had very negative effects, and my anger was often cooled by the time I set pen to paper.

Being unsure that the recipient will "get it" literally and figuratively is a risk, but no more or less a risk than with verbal communication. Communication is the sending and receiving of information. Just saying it doesn't really make it communication. Nor does only writing it, but, unlike speech, writing out my thoughts is by itself a useful exercise. It is sometimes cathartic, or clarifying, and this *can* happen even without a receptive audience.

Writing can have a tone of voice, but it's not the same as vocal inflections. There's something magical about the human voice that touches us deeply. Unfortunately, in situations like this, the sensation that touch leaves is anger or frustration or despair or contempt. I have reacted to the tone and missed the words and this has crippled the communication. Missing that exquisite intensity can let me focus better on the content of what is being conveyed.

Writing's totally worth it, and I wholeheartedly recommend it. We have lots of tools, writing's one of them. Try them all, keep paying attention, use what works.

[morethanpretty]

To try to give you a kid's perspective since i dont have a married one:
My dad is endlessly cranky. My mom still puts up with it and makes excuses for him. To me it just makes me sick and has driven me away from both of them. He's not physically abusive, and I'm not sure I would call him emotionally abusive but it's pisses me off how he treats her sometimes. Not to mention he does the same damn thing to me. I don't really want them to divorce, but I do wish that I didn't have to deal with him all the time and could just see my mom. That's awful I know. Your kids might have similar feelings about your situation, but then again I'm older.

[footfootfoot]

At this point:
42 y.o. no menopause that I can see.
visits mom ~ every 6 weeks
visits last 2-3 days
reaction lasts 2-4 days
unreasonable, irrational, and in denial.
She is sort of working on seeing a therapist as a prelude to counselling. Been that route before with middling results.

Things have calmed somewhat, but I know it is just an ebb tide. Waiting to see if the therapist actually happens before I make ultimatums.

[Nirvana]

unreasonable, irrational, and in denial

Hot flashes are not the only sign of the change. I feel sorry for men just when they think they have the woman monthly thing figured out menopause happens. Asking her to have some blood work done for a hormone check will probably be taken as an insult and possibly another verbal assault to follow.

Maybe you can suggest at an opportune moment that you both have blood work done just to make sure everything is A OK.

[Jaydaan]

IMO Something happened to her. Childhood abuse maybe. Everytime she goes to her mom's its coming out... it may be getting harder and harder to control. Chances are, she will resent you and anyone who tries to help her ( for a while) Chances are, she hates what she is doing as well.... hence the anger and denial. Pretending nothing is wrong is her defence.
Help will hurt her at first.... but it will be a good thing for all of you. One way or another. All you can do is strongly suggest councelling. If she wont go, you go... and the kids if possible. They need to know its not their fault.
Sorry you are going through this... hugs to you.

[footfootfoot]

Update of sorts.
Things have cooled down enough to where we can begin a dialog. Very cautious.

Mutual friends have been enlisted and I've been told she is aware, to a great extent, of her behavior. Less so of my being at my journey's end.

I am cracking the cover of "No more mr. nice guy" again.

Thanks to all of you for your emotional support. You are all a peach.

[footfootfoot]

Griff's edit ain't half bad, but would probably cause more trouble than it's worth. Plus, I'd feel guilty as hell if I didn't also bring mrs foot...

[Gravdigr]

A threefer?

[ZenGum]

Sorry for lolling in ur serious thread.

[footfootfoot]

hell, I started it.

[BigV]

I have a question:

What is Mrs Foot's degree of dedication to the union?

I realize that you might (probably) want to ignore this question here, STFU, perfectly fine responses. I ask from my own experience. As plain as it is to say out loud, it was surprisingly easy to overlook in my own thoughts at the time. I might want to keep the marriage intact, but if Tink wanted to end it, it was over. Each party has the right and the ability to end it (passively, consciously, actively, neglectfully, etc etc.). It takes two to make it work.

Do you want it to work?

Does she want it to work?

Is the desire of each explicitly known to the other?

Unless you have three yes answers in a row there, you absolutely have a deal breaking problem.