Egypt and Arab States circle toilet bowl

[skysidhe]

hehehe funny video

I lol'ed

[TheMercenary]

A good article on the subject....

http://bigthink.com/ideas/26695

[DanaC]

Interesting article. Thanks for that.

[TheMercenary]

Dictator or Democracy. Wait didn't everyone tell Bush not to export Democracy?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...-egypt-mubarak

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...d=opinionsbox1

[TheMercenary]

WASHINGTON Feb 3 (Reuters) - The U.S. intelligence committee warned President Barack Obama's administration of instability in Egypt at the end of 2010, but did not foresee the trigger for unrest, a top U.S. intelligence official said on Thursday.

http://af.reuters.com/article/egyptN...01485620110203

[Pico and ME]

And Obama was supposed to do what with that vague warning, given only a month ago?

[tw]

Originally Posted by Pico and ME

And Obama was supposed to do what with that vague warning, given only a month ago?

Virtually nobody saw this coming. The Economist about two months ago noted the coming instability because so many Arab leaders are so old and so authoritarian. Cited were Mubarak, Kaddafi, and King Fahd of Saudi Arabia.

Even those in Egypt probably had no idea this was coming.

Responsible leaders are supposed to make provisions for the replacement. Important to protect their legacy. In democracies, we call that elections. In Egypt, Sadat had selected his successor - Mubarak. One would think Mubarak learned. Nope. A problem when one lives in an ethersphere for too long. In his case, 30 years.

Mubarak is so detached from reality as to blame another political party - the Muslim Brotherhood - for his problems. An example of what happens when one lives too detached from his people for too long. And a real shame. A man who did so much for Egypt would so tarnish his legacy by making so many mistakes in the past decade. He is so removed from reality as to believe 90% of Egyptians voted for his party? Too much time in the ethersphere will severely pit what could have been a stellar record.

Americans have no pig in this race. And should not be involved. Even whether Mubarak has plans for a successor is not for any American to demand. Well, an American president did try to subvert elections in Australia. How did that work out? Learn from history. Only they can decide the government they want. Our job is to be talking to all parties - nothing more.

[TheMercenary]

Maybe formulate a plan for a response rather than waiting days and days. Sort of reminds me of the criticism that people put to Bush about 9/11 after he took office on 8 months prior. I find it more interesting rather than a chance to bash Obama but it does present a contradiction in our Foreign Policy when we want to support democratic events overseas on the one hand but don't want to ruin relationships that have been fostered over 30 years in an effort to maintain peace in the region.

[TheMercenary]

No response Pico?

[Pico and ME]

What are you expecting? Its so vague and only a month old. But even so, how do you know that they didn't already have a response formulated.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Pico and ME

But even so, how do you know that they didn't already have a response formulated.

Because none was given. Did you even follow the news in the days when the protests and then riots started? Did you follow the response from the White House? There was first support to for the ruling dictator followed by fence sitting. They can't have it both ways.

[Pico and ME]

You're talking about a public response, you dont know what was said or done behind closed doors.

[TheMercenary]

Yes, I am talking about a public response... to the world.

[tw]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Yes, I am talking about a public response... to the world.

America's public response is the best we could hope for. How do we know? Wacko extremists and Fox News are attacking it. Same people who also attacked Muslims in Manhattan. Same people who will say anything to inspire hate - especially of the Muslim Brotherhood.

From what is reported by those in country and who are also talking to the insiders, Obama, et al are saying the right things. And doing what Americans must do. Maintain a public low profile. Talk to all parties. And encourage the country to do only what its people want. If that is Muslim Brotherhood, well, time to avert that was back when George Jr was instead encouraging hate, torture, and physical attacks on anyone who did not tout his party line.

Let's not forget how much influence was destroyed by wacko extremism in the 2000s. American popularity went from 80% approval ratings down to around a 20% rating. A strongest American ally - Turkey - went from 90% to 10%. And wackos said this was good.

Time to reap what we have sown. Muslim Brotherhood has good reasons to not like America. Torture, international kidnappings, public lying, and harm to innocent people in the name of a political agenda says why so many distrust America. Why America has lost so much credibility and influence everywhere. And why so many are now talking about the end of the American Century - a country of has beens.

It’s not like this is new to anyone here. Problem was well defined by insiders when the problem was being created: Are you safer today?

We know Obama is not doing what stupid leaders did. He is talking even to people who might be our enemies. Wacko extremists cannot (and the George Jr administration refused to) do that because a political agenda (and Cheney and Limbaugh) said so. Because their political agenda rather than intelligence was more important.

We may be seeing a new Egyptian government containing or dominated by the Muslim Brotherhood. Time to face a reality that may have resulted from events in and around 2006. Only wackos think we should act to stop that. Intelligent people understand how to have the greatest influence. Go with the flow. Talk to everyone. Especially those that wackos ‘know’ are enemies. Only wackos always have a long list of those we must attack, not talk to, and subvert. Also called hate.

Why did so many Al Jazeera news offices get 'accidently' attacked by Americans? We must now live with a legacy created before 2008.

The American public response is obviously correct because American wacko extremists do not like it. And because reality and intelligence says so. And because America must live with the international credibility disaster that was created from 2001 to 2008 when George Jr even did what the Norwegian Foreign Minister said he would do - destroy the Oslo Accords. It will take decades to mend those fields of diplomacy. A disaster created by the same wacko extremism that also made Katrina such a disaster. Who even destroyed America's manned space program. Who had lawyers rewrite science papers to agree with the political agenda. And ... well no reason to again define disasters we now live with due to those eight years of stupidity.

We know Obama is talking to all parties - quietly. That is the only thing America can do considering the now poor state of American credibility due to wacko extremism.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Yes, I am talking about a public response... to the world.

What would you have suggested he had done? I personally believe that fence sitting was the best response for this situation. No need to stick our heads into another bad situation and piss people off even further.

Mubarak supported US national interests in certain areas for many years and that is why we supported him. That is also why Egyptians tend to be distrustful of the United States. Mubarak obviously needs to go, and Obama should and has supported that opinion, but I have a strong feeling that any further public influence by the United States to steer Egypt's future will only backfire.

As for the Muslim Brotherhood's influence. You could find 100 similarities and 100 differences between Egypt 2011 and Iran 1979. Only hindsight will validate which arguments were stronger.