What the heck is up with this?

[classicman]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

So now what are they going to do once they're in office, take care of their own, or do what's right for the whole community? If they're going to do what's right for the whole community, what difference does it make who wins?

Politicians should be elected for their record, or promises in the beginning, then bounced if they fuck up... no matter what color or party. This sounds like one of those fucking esteem boosting programs.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Redux

If a community/neighborhood is not represented on the governing body, preferablly by someone from within that community/neighborhood and particularly when that community/neighborhood is primarily a minority community...there is a far greater likelihood that the community/neighborhood will not be served as well as those that are represented directly on the governing body.

It is not always political correctness, but fairness!

Special treatment for minorities is not fairness, no one should get special treatment.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

What if the "majority" office holder only takes care of their own? They'll never be bounced because they have the backing of the majority. Someone who consistently fucks the minority can stay in office forever, regardless of whether they they do what's right for the whole community.

So how is puting 1 or 2 minorities on a council of 6, 9, or a dozen going to change that?

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Special treatment for minorities is not fairness, no one should get special treatment.

I'll give you a couple of examples.

A city/town council has decided to undertake a major capital improvement project to fix up the city parks...but over a 3 year period. There is one "central" park that should be first on the list, but there is no compelling citywide reason to prioritize the other neighborhood parks. The six council members, all White and all living in the predominantly White neighborhoods of the city. There is no one on the council who lives in the predominantly Hispanic neighborhood. Which neighborhood park is most likely to be last on the list?

A city has an opportunity to receive a community development grant from the state. There is no one project that the council can come up that will benefit the entire city, but each of the council members has a project in his/her neighborhood that they think should be funded. Who is there to promote the project for the Hispanic neighborhood.

It is not special treatment...it is having an equal voice on the council and the opportunity to be represented by someone from within the community.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

So how is puting 1 or 2 minorities on a council of 6, 9, or a dozen going to change that?

The change? Having someone from within the Hispanic community on the council who might better understand the issues of the community and, at the very least, providing a voice on the council.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Redux

Which neighborhood park is most likely to be last on the list?

Sure, because every majority candidate feels those minorities must be oppressed, we'll fix up their park with broken glass and infected needles.

If the voting is for several candidates at large, and the minority community wants one of there own, (whether it's a vote for one, or vote for say, 3 of 6), all they have to do is get off their ass and vote for him. 20, 30 or 40% turnout shows they really don't want to make an effort, they want it handed to them by do-gooders making fucked up laws.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Sure, because every majority candidate feels those minorities must be oppressed, we'll fix up their park with broken glass and infected needles.

If the voting is for several candidates at large, and the minority community wants one of there own, (whether it's a vote for one, or vote for say, 3 of 6), all they have to do is get off their ass and vote for him. 20, 30 or 40% turnout shows they really don't want to make an effort, they want it handed to them by do-gooders making fucked up laws.

Broken glass and infected needles...come on, dude.

My point was that on issues like this, which are common at the local level and have no real citywide impact, a White council member (or any council member) is more likely to serve his closest constituents first.. the ones they know voted for him.

As to at-large voting, that is not how it works.

I dont know the specifics of the town in question, but if there is a six member council, probably elected in overlapping terms...say three at a time for two years...each citizens votes once, but votes for three people.

Increasing the percentage turn-out of the minority voters does not change the odds against their ever achieving representation if all (or most) of the majority voters continue to vote on color (or neighborhood) lines.

added afterthought:
cumulative voting does increase the chances for a minority to get elected....just not as much as changing to a sytem of voting by district.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

So how is puting 1 or 2 minorities on a council of 6, 9, or a dozen going to change that?

God Dammed Right.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Redux

Increasing the percentage turn-out of the minority voters does not change the odds against their ever achieving representation if all (or most) of the majority voters continue to vote on color (or neighborhood) lines.

What a load of bull shit. Statistics consistently show that minority voters are overwhelmingly Demoncratic. Pedal your propaganda elsewhere.

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

What a load of bull shit. Statistics consitantly show that minority voters are overwhelmingly Demoncratic.

Most local elections are non-partisan...and putting that aside, it still doesnt address the issue of having representation on the governing board from within one's own community.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Redux

Most local elections are non-partisan...and putting aside, it still doesnt address the issue of having representation on the governing board from one's own community.

Most people don't turn out for local election cycles. On a national level is where Obama and the Demoncrats will gain votes by giving illegals citizenship status and they know it.

In the imortal words of Rham It Through Emanuel, never let a good crisis go to waste.

I'll be happy to discuss it further with Bruce if he would like.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Redux

Most local elections are non-partisan...and putting that aside, it still doesnt address the issue of having representation on the governing board from within one's own community.

That's true, Philly is Democrat and elections are settled in the primary. My burb is Republican and the same is true, in fact you'll find the same people running for things like the school board, on both tickets.

To bring the discussion full circle, a Hispanic was elected to the council in Port Chester last week, using the court-sanctioned cumulative voting system.

It did not provide additional rights to Hispanics, it was not undemocratic. It corrected a deficiency in the voting system that previously benefited the majority at the expense of the minority.

[xoxoxoBruce]

OK, I misunderstood how this works. They give everybody 6 votes, not just some people. So they went from one man, one vote, to one man, six votes.

Arthur Furano, an 80-year-old lifelong resident of Port Chester, voted Thursday and gave all six of his votes to one candidate.
"That was very strange," he said. "I'm not sure I liked it. All my life, I've heard, 'one man, one vote.'"
His wife, Gloria Furano, gave one vote each to six candidates.

I still don't like it, but I'm less incensed.
The hispanics make up nearly half the 30,000 population, and the top 6 of 13 candidates get elected. Sounds to me like they never elected one before because they weren't trying very fucking hard. I also suspect they elected one of the two running, because of...

The village held 12 forums — six each in English and Spanish — to let voters know about the new system and to practice voting. It also produced bright yellow T-shirts, tote bags and lawn signs declaring "Your voice, your vote, your village," all part of the education program mandated in the government agreement. Announcements were made on cable TV in each language and reminders were sent home in schoolkids' backpacks.

All the materials had to be approved in advance, in English and Spanish versions, by the Department of Justice.

Aaron Conetta said the voter education effort was so thorough he found voting easier than usual.

link