Why is the United States backing Mexican drug gangs? - Page 4

piercehawkeye45 · 01-15-2009, 09:00 PM

Gangbangers controlling the drug trade? How about Mexico collapsing?

Cocaine and Heroin are extremely heavy shit, but so is the black market. Both are fucked up and we can get rid of neither but we can shift the balance.

Pie · 01-15-2009, 09:51 PM

Hell, pot's less addictive than tobacco, that's been proven.

piercehawkeye45 · 01-15-2009, 10:16 PM

Weed laws are ridiculous. It is dangerous when abused but that is about it. In moderation it is relatively safe (as safe as alcohol).

TheMercenary · 01-16-2009, 03:52 PM

I would have to agree, I am not sure how we get everyone else to agree and get the laws changed.

Radar · 01-16-2009, 05:37 PM

The best way to end all of the drug related violence and to break the backs of the gangs is to make all drugs legal. Gangs don't sell things that are legal. They would go out of business. It would reduce the number of people in our prisons and the costs involved in that. It would get non-criminals out of jail so really dangerous criminals could stay for their full sentence. It would restore respect and confidence in our legal system. It would prevent government from stealing property. We would have less overdoses since drug strength and dosage could be regulated. Drugs would be cheaper so addicts wouldn't have to steal to support their habits. People could seek help for addiction without the social stigma attached to "illegal" drug usage or the risk of jail time.

ALL DRUGS - Cocaine, Heroin, PCP, Crystal Meth, Ecstacy, LSD, etc. should be legal and as easy for any adult to get as it is for them to get alcohol.

This would result in less people using drugs, less people dying from overdoses, fewer families being broken up because the bread-winner is sent to jail for a non-crime like drug usage, manufacture, or distribution, etc.

Government derives its limited powers from the consent of the governed. This means it may only have the powers that we grant to it, and that it may only have the powers that we, as individuals, have on our own so we can grant it to government.

I have no right to tell another person not to do drugs. I do have the right to use force to prevent them from harming or endangering me or my family members. This doesn't mean I have the right to stop them from using drugs; just the right to make laws against driving, flying a plane, performing surgery, etc. while under the influence.

Ending the failed drug war would save lives, would result in less overall drug usage, provide safer drugs, save trillions of dollars, bring gangs and corrupt police and judges to their knees, etc.

Only good can come from ending the drug war.

Beestie · 01-16-2009, 06:37 PM

There is no social or legal justification for criminalizing the cultivation or consumption of pot. How can it be against the law for me to grow a pot plant in my own back yard? What legal principal is being applied?

TheMercenary · 01-16-2009, 06:51 PM

The law that says you can't grow one.

Here ya go: http://www.legalmatch.com/law-librar...marijuana.html

Here is another: http://www.growing-marijuana-seeds.c...juana-law.html

footfootfoot · 01-16-2009, 07:42 PM

I think I posted a link to this book a few years ago when a similar debate ran. The guys name escapes me, but his book was a comparison between all the various drugs which are currently popular and it includes alcohol, tobacco, and caffeine in the comparison.

His take, FWIW, is that social sanctioned drugs are the ones which make us more productive, caffeine gets us up and at the factory, and booze numbs us at the end of the day dulling our pain and taking the edge off the several cups of coffee.

hallucinogens, pot and narcotics are not the kinds of things you want your workforce engaging in since they are apt to make the user question the status quo or at least his or her part in it. I seem to remember reading that the penalties for run of the mill speed (remember "diet pills"?) are much lighter than weed.

Terrence McKenna: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terence_McKenna

Radar · 01-17-2009, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

The law that says you can't grow one.

Here ya go: http://www.legalmatch.com/law-librar...marijuana.html

Here is another: http://www.growing-marijuana-seeds.c...juana-law.html

Where does the government get the authority to create any laws that do not pertain to the enumerated powers in the Constitution? When I grow pot in my own back yard, it's neither interstate, nor commerce, yet the government claims it falls under the interstate commerce clause.

classicman · 01-17-2009, 12:46 AM

Oh good gracious.

xoxoxoBruce · 01-17-2009, 02:39 AM

Close the border.
Legalize drugs, with Goverment control of distribution and taxation = increased revenue, and all but eliminate the gang bangers terrorizing our cities.

Oh, and the fools that OD will decrease the unemployment rate, lessen the drain on Social Security, and mandatory cremation would be a renewable energy source.

TheMercenary · 01-17-2009, 05:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Oh, and the fools that OD will decrease the unemployment rate, lessen the drain on Social Security, and mandatory cremation would be a renewable energy source.

Good idea! If that works out we should make them really really deadly and hasten the process, the whole druggie thing could end rather quickly under this plan.

Undertoad · 01-17-2009, 08:14 AM

There would be fewer ODs because dosages would be controlled, and druggies would know exactly what they were getting. People wouldn't be snorting oxycontin and cutting up fentanyl patches and stuff. Also there would be a more predictable market for drugs like subutex which block opiates, allowing addicts to have a more normal life if they can't go through a rehab program.

Griff · 01-17-2009, 08:25 AM

amen

richlevy · 01-17-2009, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad

There would be fewer ODs because dosages would be controlled, and druggies would know exactly what they were getting. People wouldn't be snorting oxycontin and cutting up fentanyl patches and stuff. Also there would be a more predictable market for drugs like subutex which block opiates, allowing addicts to have a more normal life if they can't go through a rehab program.

And we wouldn't have to buy over the counter medications in limited quantities.
And we would be able to scrap 'know your customer' regulations for banks.

01-15-2009, 09:00 PM	#46
piercehawkeye45 Franklin Pierce Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,695	Gangbangers controlling the drug trade? How about Mexico collapsing? Cocaine and Heroin are extremely heavy shit, but so is the black market. Both are fucked up and we can get rid of neither but we can shift the balance. __________________ I like my perspectives like I like my baseball caps: one size fits all.

01-15-2009, 09:51 PM	#47
Pie Gone and done Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 4,808	Hell, pot's less addictive than tobacco, that's been proven. __________________ per·son \ˈpər-sən\ (noun) - an ephemeral collection of small, irrational decisions The fun thing about evolution (and science in general) is that it happens whether you believe in it or not.

01-15-2009, 10:16 PM	#48
piercehawkeye45 Franklin Pierce Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,695	Weed laws are ridiculous. It is dangerous when abused but that is about it. In moderation it is relatively safe (as safe as alcohol). __________________ I like my perspectives like I like my baseball caps: one size fits all.

01-16-2009, 03:52 PM	#49
TheMercenary “Hypocrisy: prejudice with a halo” Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Savannah, Georgia Posts: 21,393	I would have to agree, I am not sure how we get everyone else to agree and get the laws changed. __________________ Anyone but the this most fuked up President in History in 2012!

01-16-2009, 05:37 PM	#50
Radar Constitutional Scholar Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Ocala, FL Posts: 4,006	The best way to end all of the drug related violence and to break the backs of the gangs is to make all drugs legal. Gangs don't sell things that are legal. They would go out of business. It would reduce the number of people in our prisons and the costs involved in that. It would get non-criminals out of jail so really dangerous criminals could stay for their full sentence. It would restore respect and confidence in our legal system. It would prevent government from stealing property. We would have less overdoses since drug strength and dosage could be regulated. Drugs would be cheaper so addicts wouldn't have to steal to support their habits. People could seek help for addiction without the social stigma attached to "illegal" drug usage or the risk of jail time. ALL DRUGS - Cocaine, Heroin, PCP, Crystal Meth, Ecstacy, LSD, etc. should be legal and as easy for any adult to get as it is for them to get alcohol. This would result in less people using drugs, less people dying from overdoses, fewer families being broken up because the bread-winner is sent to jail for a non-crime like drug usage, manufacture, or distribution, etc. Government derives its limited powers from the consent of the governed. This means it may only have the powers that we grant to it, and that it may only have the powers that we, as individuals, have on our own so we can grant it to government. I have no right to tell another person not to do drugs. I do have the right to use force to prevent them from harming or endangering me or my family members. This doesn't mean I have the right to stop them from using drugs; just the right to make laws against driving, flying a plane, performing surgery, etc. while under the influence. Ending the failed drug war would save lives, would result in less overall drug usage, provide safer drugs, save trillions of dollars, bring gangs and corrupt police and judges to their knees, etc. Only good can come from ending the drug war. __________________ "I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death." - George Carlin

01-16-2009, 06:37 PM	#51
Beestie -◊\|≡·∙■·∙≡\|◊- Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Parts unknown. Posts: 4,081	There is no social or legal justification for criminalizing the cultivation or consumption of pot. How can it be against the law for me to grow a pot plant in my own back yard? What legal principal is being applied? __________________ ♠ ♥ ♣ ♦

01-16-2009, 06:51 PM	#52
TheMercenary “Hypocrisy: prejudice with a halo” Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Savannah, Georgia Posts: 21,393	The law that says you can't grow one. Here ya go: http://www.legalmatch.com/law-librar...marijuana.html Here is another: http://www.growing-marijuana-seeds.c...juana-law.html __________________ Anyone but the this most fuked up President in History in 2012! Last edited by TheMercenary; 01-16-2009 at 06:57 PM.

01-16-2009, 07:42 PM	#53
footfootfoot To shreds, you say? Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: in the house and on the street-how many, many feet we meet! Posts: 18,449	I think I posted a link to this book a few years ago when a similar debate ran. The guys name escapes me, but his book was a comparison between all the various drugs which are currently popular and it includes alcohol, tobacco, and caffeine in the comparison. His take, FWIW, is that social sanctioned drugs are the ones which make us more productive, caffeine gets us up and at the factory, and booze numbs us at the end of the day dulling our pain and taking the edge off the several cups of coffee. hallucinogens, pot and narcotics are not the kinds of things you want your workforce engaging in since they are apt to make the user question the status quo or at least his or her part in it. I seem to remember reading that the penalties for run of the mill speed (remember "diet pills"?) are much lighter than weed. Terrence McKenna: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terence_McKenna __________________ The internet is a hateful stew of vomit you can never take completely seriously. - Her Fobs

01-17-2009, 12:46 AM	#55
classicman barely disguised asshole, keeper of all that is holy. Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 23,401	Oh good gracious. __________________ "like strapping a pillow on a bull in a china shop" Bullitt

01-17-2009, 02:39 AM	#56
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Close the border. Legalize drugs, with Goverment control of distribution and taxation = increased revenue, and all but eliminate the gang bangers terrorizing our cities. Oh, and the fools that OD will decrease the unemployment rate, lessen the drain on Social Security, and mandatory cremation would be a renewable energy source. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

01-17-2009, 08:14 AM	#58
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	There would be fewer ODs because dosages would be controlled, and druggies would know exactly what they were getting. People wouldn't be snorting oxycontin and cutting up fentanyl patches and stuff. Also there would be a more predictable market for drugs like subutex which block opiates, allowing addicts to have a more normal life if they can't go through a rehab program.

01-17-2009, 08:25 AM	#59
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	amen __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

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