I will boycott the Olympics

[aliasyzy]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

I don't think pumping hundreds of billions of dollars into China's economy, will destroy your country.

Pumping money surely won't destroy a country. (who knows, If it's a finance conspiracy, maybe it will.)

what i mean is: Good and evil game will cause a bigger game called war.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by aliasyzy

....what i mean is: Good and evil game will cause a bigger game called war.

A US-China war won't happen. We both have too much to lose, and the money men won't allow it.

[Shawnee123]

WHAT?

Seriously, I wonder. Seems nothing is sacred and above being bought or politically influenced. My cynicism isn't completely unfounded, I'm sure.

[Rhianne]

So is anyone really boycotting these games?

There have been plenty in the past of course but I wonder how the 1936 Berlin Games would be remembered if they had, justifiably, been boycotted. Surely everyone has seen those newsreels featuring Jesse Owens - I wouldn't want to be without those.

[aliasyzy]

Originally Posted by miketrees

I know my tiny little amount of spending power is not going to worry anybody, its the thought that counts.

I think the Olympic industry did some dirty dealing with China to get the games.

I think China should remove all restrictions on the Internet, I mean imagine how your rights would be impaired if you could not get access to , porn sites, The Cellar and just stuff like that.

No kidding I will turn it off from radio TV and I wont read about it in the paper.

I'm a chinese, I could get access to The Cellar, porn sites and just stuff like that So your reason to boycott Olympic is not adequate.

Every country has its own restrictions -- laws are restrictions. China does have some unreasonable restrictions, but China is developing and no one is perfect, right?

Rights of Chinese people are seriously impaired? You gotta be joking.

[xoxoxoBruce]

I agree with you, aliasyzy. But I also think Shanghai is hardly representative of China in general.
Of course that's the biggest problem about making generalizations about China, and the Chinese people. The country is HUGE. Just the change in climate, from north to south is staggering. There are crowded cities, uninhabited deserts, and everything in between.

Now the common thing is the National government, but I've read the regional governments have a lot of power, causing different rules (laws) in different regions. Of course we foreigners only hear what the Party is doing on a national level, national policy I guess you could call it, and yes, the western press zeros in of the negatives. But then again, your press is not exactly forthcoming.

So forgive us our ignorance, for we have been coached in our view of China. Better yet, please enlighten us with the truth about life in China.

[aliasyzy]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

I agree with you, aliasyzy. But I also think Shanghai is hardly representative of China in general.
Of course that's the biggest problem about making generalizations about China, and the Chinese people. The country is HUGE. Just the change in climate, from north to south is staggering. There are crowded cities, uninhabited deserts, and everything in between.

Now the common thing is the National government, but I've read the regional governments have a lot of power, causing different rules (laws) in different regions. Of course we foreigners only hear what the Party is doing on a national level, national policy I guess you could call it, and yes, the western press zeros in of the negatives. But then again, your press is not exactly forthcoming.

So forgive us our ignorance, for we have been coached in our view of China. Better yet, please enlighten us with the truth about life in China.

There are problems in almost every aspects of China. It's a big country and it's still a poor country. Like you said, making generalization should be careful.

I just want to say that people all over the world are the same: selfish, cowerdly and greedy. You can choose to understand others and work out a way to co-exist, or you can picture them as evil and fight them.

-------------
I'd like to answer questions about China. I may not be correctly informed, but I could provide another angle to view China.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by aliasyzy

I just want to say that people all over the world are the same: selfish, cowerdly and greedy.

I don't agree with that generalization about people anywhere. Sure, there are some that fit that mold in any society, and unfortunately that's the type of people that are driven to power and wealth.
Although I have no scientific empirical data to prove it, I believe that most people, everywhere, just want to get along with their neighbors and take care of their families.

The people you described, the people I think seek power, do their best to capitalize of people's natural fear of the unknown, fear of people and cultures they don't know.

Now I'm far from a cockeyed optimist but my experience is, of the many people I've met, while I don't like all of them, once I know them, I don't fear them.

[aliasyzy]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

I don't agree with that generalization about people anywhere. Sure, there are some that fit that mold in any society, and unfortunately that's the type of people that are driven to power and wealth.
Although I have no scientific empirical data to prove it, I believe that most people, everywhere, just want to get along with their neighbors and take care of their families.

The people you described, the people I think seek power, do their best to capitalize of people's natural fear of the unknown, fear of people and cultures they don't know.

Now I'm far from a cockeyed optimist but my experience is, of the many people I've met, while I don't like all of them, once I know them, I don't fear them.

Being selfish, cowardly, and greedy is not absolutely bad. it's just what we are. One can always use better words to tell the same story.

Everybody seeks power. Get along and take care of families surely need power. Without power, can we sit comfortably in front of an LCD and chat like this while some people on the earth have to worry about their next meal? If you lose the power to sustain your current life style, will you try to get it back?

Moreover, how much is enough? Even if US citizens reduce their living standard by half, their life will still be like a heaven to at least 60% population of the world. Will people do so to spare some resources in building a better world? I'm not critical of US, because blind consumptionism is now all over the world.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

I should take a moment to welcome aliasyzy to the Cellar, and to offer congratulations on your excellent English, sir. I hope the Great Firewall of China doesn't ever give you trouble with contacting big-nosed Americans.

[aliasyzy]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

I should take a moment to welcome aliasyzy to the Cellar, and to offer congratulations on your excellent English, sir. I hope the Great Firewall of China doesn't ever give you trouble with contacting big-nosed Americans.

Every time I speak with big-nosed Americans, Mr. and Mrs Spank will pay a short sharp trip to my botty land

Oops, the doorbell is ringing. Noooooooo!!!!

[DanaC]

Nice to meet you aliasyzy

I understand that we have a very skewed view of China over here. I also understand that people are people wherever they are. I find the Chinese government's stance on Falun Gong to be rather more extreme than many other governments' stances on similarly troubling internal issues. That is not just the skewed western view of China. There is strong evidence of live harvest donation from Falun Gong prisoners. That is not the same the world over.

[aliasyzy]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Nice to meet you aliasyzy

I understand that we have a very skewed view of China over here. I also understand that people are people wherever they are. I find the Chinese government's stance on Falun Gong to be rather more extreme than many other governments' stances on similarly troubling internal issues. .....

I don't know much about the details of Falun Gong, but my points of view could represent quite a few people in China.

1. I've seen some video clips Li Hongzhi, head of Falun Gong, made for his followers. Full of crap like "I'm the avatar of buddha, believe in me and practice Falun Gong, you will be healthy, happy and go to heaven." To me, Falun Gong is a cult. ("cult" maybe a little too negative. I don't know the exact word to describe it)

2. About live harvest donation, I downloaded a report written by two US lawers from the official website of Falun Gong(banned in China. I know some tricks to get me through). The report pretends to be objective, but the accusation is based on guess/induction. To me, it's more like a sentimental portray of evil communist party than a objective report.

3. Possibility of live harvest donation (my judgement/guess)
small scale 60%
large scale 5%
You said there is strong evidence, so my estimate may be a little ridiculous.

4. If live havrest donation existed, who to blame? Communist party? Central Government?
Believe me, such horrible things(if they existed) have nothing to do with central government. No government will allow things like this, because such atrocity undermines the foundation of the whole society.
Based on my experience, if there is live harvest donation, it should be related to the corruption of local prison or police(esp rural areas), gansters, human organ trafficking group.
The central government at that time may not even know, province or local governments surely would choose to cover such a disgraceful crime.

5. Why Li Hongzhi or Falun Gong keeps accusing communist party or central government? First, the central government banned Falun Gong. Second, is there any other way more convenient to get support in US?

6. My grandfather in law was once a Falun Gong learner. Never heard of any Falun Gong followers put in prison in Shanghai. However, there is a high possibility that dedicated Falun Gong followers were treated unfairly in some less developed areas.

If you know Chinese, you could visit the Chinese language wiki site of Falun Gong (banned in China) http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%B3%...BD%AE%E5%8A%9F Note: not english wiki of Falun Gong, they are different!

I get the link from google. I think it's relatively objective. It will tell you the chronicle of Falun Gong and how it was banned in China.

[DanaC]

Unfortunately I have no knowledge of Chinese. The infor I have on Falun Gong isn't from wiki, it's from the small Falun Gong refugee community over here and Amnesty. The evidence I've seen includes personal testimony from a group petitioning for my support (the women spoke with an interpreter, so I can accept that actual direct interaction was limited), several reports including some American, Canadian and German submissions, most containing photographic evidence.

I accept your point about the difference between Shanghai and the more rural areas. I also accept your point that it is difficult to say for sure where culpability lies. But, the evidence I've seen is highly suggestive of this being something sanctioned at a high level.

I don't know what the truth is. You don't know what the truth is. It's an interesting, if slightly disturbing, question to ponder though :P

Thanks for not taking offense at my post. I am not coming to this from an anti-Chinese stance. I have had a good deal of interaction with people claiming abuse and persecution due to their practising Falun Gong, hence it is a subject that interests me.

[aliasyzy]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Unfortunately I have no knowledge of Chinese. The infor I have on Falun Gong isn't from wiki, it's from the small Falun Gong refugee community over here and Amnesty. ......

I've seen some photograph evidence you talked about. But I'm not convinced. I have to admit I don't trust sources from a "cult" and a braggadocio leader. Money could buy everything.
Well, It's my prejudice.

I can't imagine any plausible motive if high level people had ever persecuted superstitious citizens.

The central government seems never inspected and responsed those accusations -- definitely a bad habit. You are right. I don't know the truth.

I know what's not true and try to guess what's true.