Oil jumps above $100 on refinery outage - Page 4

Shawnee123 · 03-11-2008, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lookout123

OK, so we want the government to step up and push money into alt fuel? How? What areas? Who gets the money? How much? Who decides? What benchmark must they hit to receive the money? If something proves viable, who gets to profit? How much? If the price of oil comes down should we quit spending money on something that is more expensive and less efficient than oil? Where is the cutoff?

I'm not saying alt fuel is a pipe dream. I'm not saying it isn't a worthy goal. I'm saying it is more complicated than having a schmoe in a suit say "we need to ween ourselves from foreign oil".

As the price of fossil fuels goes up, alternative energy becomes more attractive and research and testing ramps up. It takes time for new ideas to be explored, tested, approved, and developed to the point that they can go to market with an expectation of profitability. Remember, companies aren't making products because of the warm fuzzy feeling they get. They have to harness new ideas into profitable scenarios before they can bring them to you. Part of the process is preparing for any backlash as well.
New high efficiency light bulbs? Awesome. They are more hazardous when disposed of? damn.
New hybrid cars? Love them! oh, they're more expensive and the manufacturing process vs savings takes 8+ years to offset? Hmmm.

I don't want my government to just throw money at the problem so they look concerned. I fully support a reasonable and rational expenditure that has a reasonable chance of proving effective.

bold mine

So you want them to do things completely differently than they've done everything else?

Aliantha · 03-11-2008, 05:28 PM

The reason oil prices are up is because the middle east is limiting the supply coming out. That is all.

If and when they remove those limits, prices will go down again unless the oil distributors think they can get away with making more profit and keeping the prices up.

lookout123 · 03-11-2008, 05:30 PM

Quote:

So you want them to do things completely differently than they've done everything else?

Very much so. I would love to see a few of them prove to be worthy of the trust we are forced to place in them.

Aliantha · 03-11-2008, 05:31 PM

It'd work out at almost $6/gallon over here btw. You're still getting it cheaper than we are, and you don't have the same interest rates on your mortgages that we do.

The average Australian has had to find an extra $100/month to put on their mortgage over the last year. That's about the same amount many families spent on fuel for their car. This new hike in fuel prices is putting real pressure on families all over the world.

Shawnee123 · 03-11-2008, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

I read that they project people are going to finally start saying "that's enough" and drive a whole lot less. I'll believe it when I see it. That's what we can hope for. That is what I think those who say "in my country it's 5000 qwerty a ha' litre or whatever measurements they use, so you should be happy" don't understand. This IS America and we do expect that our government listen to the people who are saying "this is enough when I must choose between feeding my family and gasoline" by boycotting, cutting down, and aggressive feedback.

I don't believe gas prices are on an unavoidable upswing. I do believe that if we get a president (et al) who is (are) not in the pockets of the oil companies we could effect some changes.

Understandable. We're all in a crunch. But, my point in this quoted post was we are hopeful that this government by, of, and for the people will listen, and act.

lookout123 · 03-11-2008, 05:36 PM

Someone who started at a $300,000 mortgage with a 5% ARM that has risen to 6.5%, interest only is now paying $375 more per month than they were before the rate increases. 7% = $500. That'll put a hitch in yer giddy'up.

lookout123 · 03-11-2008, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

Understandable. We're all in a crunch. But, my point in this quoted post was we are hopeful that this government by, of, and for the people will listen, and act.

Act how? What do you want them to do? Nationalize the oil companies and set the prices artificially low? Or should they leave the oil alone and simply step in and say that all mortgages should be dropped to 5.75% interest only so everyone has more cash?

I understand the economic strain that increasing mortgage costs and higher fuel expenses cause - I'm living in the same world you are - but what do you want the government to do?

Shawnee123 · 03-11-2008, 05:45 PM

ACT. Do something. Say ANYTHING.

I want the government to entertain the things glatt talked about.

I want them to look out on the people and at least have the common decency to shrug their shoulders and look stupid, rather than poo-poo'ing those who want to say something, effectively telling us "it's the economy, stupid, now shut the fuck up and like it."

I'd like them to address the first part of my statement: LISTEN. What comes after listen? Respond, rather than hiding around the corner 'cause you know your redneck cousin is there and she's pissed.

Aliantha · 03-11-2008, 05:47 PM

Isn't investing in alternative fuels the best and possibly the only thing the government can do really?

America and other western nations are in the mess they're in because of too much government interferance in the market in the first place. Surely asking them to interfere more could only be a bad thing.

lookout123 · 03-11-2008, 05:50 PM

Who is saying "shut up and like it"?

Does it really make you sleep better at night when some suit gets in front of a camera, gets misty eyed and says, "we need to help the middle class get cheaper fuel"?

Do you have an easier time paying your bills after a stuffed shirt tells you that Exxon made record profits and they don't think it's fair?

Seriously, saying "anything" and doing "something" doesn't solve anything. What should they do?

Aliantha · 03-11-2008, 05:51 PM

What is naive about telling you what's been reported in the news? It's a fact that the middle east is limiting the supply. Google it.

If they remove those limits, there's only two things that could happen. Prices would go down a bit, or oil distributors will leave them at the levels they are now while giving the general public some bullshit story about how they have to keep the prices up.

You explain to me what's wrong with that statement.

Aliantha · 03-11-2008, 05:56 PM

Try just plain wrong HLJ.

HungLikeJesus · 03-11-2008, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aliantha

Try just plain wrong HLJ.

Sorry Ali. I had deleted that before I saw that you responded to it. I felt bad after I posted it, but you were too quick.

Shawnee123 · 03-11-2008, 06:00 PM

They say shut the fuck up and like it by never, ever, addressing it.

I forgot I'm out of my league here when it comes to twisting and skirting. I'll go back to trying to be funny. Wish me luck.

Aliantha · 03-11-2008, 06:00 PM

There's no need to say sorry if that's what you really think HLJ. If it is what you really think, I'd be curious to know why you think it.

03-11-2008, 05:28 PM	#47
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	The reason oil prices are up is because the middle east is limiting the supply coming out. That is all. If and when they remove those limits, prices will go down again unless the oil distributors think they can get away with making more profit and keeping the prices up. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

03-11-2008, 05:31 PM	#49
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	It'd work out at almost $6/gallon over here btw. You're still getting it cheaper than we are, and you don't have the same interest rates on your mortgages that we do. The average Australian has had to find an extra $100/month to put on their mortgage over the last year. That's about the same amount many families spent on fuel for their car. This new hike in fuel prices is putting real pressure on families all over the world. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

03-11-2008, 05:36 PM	#51
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	Someone who started at a $300,000 mortgage with a 5% ARM that has risen to 6.5%, interest only is now paying $375 more per month than they were before the rate increases. 7% = $500. That'll put a hitch in yer giddy'up. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

03-11-2008, 05:45 PM	#53
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	ACT. Do something. Say ANYTHING. I want the government to entertain the things glatt talked about. I want them to look out on the people and at least have the common decency to shrug their shoulders and look stupid, rather than poo-poo'ing those who want to say something, effectively telling us "it's the economy, stupid, now shut the fuck up and like it." I'd like them to address the first part of my statement: LISTEN. What comes after listen? Respond, rather than hiding around the corner 'cause you know your redneck cousin is there and she's pissed. __________________ A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice. --Bill Cosby

03-11-2008, 05:47 PM	#54
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	Isn't investing in alternative fuels the best and possibly the only thing the government can do really? America and other western nations are in the mess they're in because of too much government interferance in the market in the first place. Surely asking them to interfere more could only be a bad thing. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

03-11-2008, 05:50 PM	#55
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	Who is saying "shut up and like it"? Does it really make you sleep better at night when some suit gets in front of a camera, gets misty eyed and says, "we need to help the middle class get cheaper fuel"? Do you have an easier time paying your bills after a stuffed shirt tells you that Exxon made record profits and they don't think it's fair? Seriously, saying "anything" and doing "something" doesn't solve anything. What should they do? __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

03-11-2008, 05:51 PM	#56
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	What is naive about telling you what's been reported in the news? It's a fact that the middle east is limiting the supply. Google it. If they remove those limits, there's only two things that could happen. Prices would go down a bit, or oil distributors will leave them at the levels they are now while giving the general public some bullshit story about how they have to keep the prices up. You explain to me what's wrong with that statement. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

03-11-2008, 05:56 PM	#57
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	Try just plain wrong HLJ. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

03-11-2008, 06:00 PM	#59
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	They say shut the fuck up and like it by never, ever, addressing it. I forgot I'm out of my league here when it comes to twisting and skirting. I'll go back to trying to be funny. Wish me luck. __________________ A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice. --Bill Cosby

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