Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week

[queequeger]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

20%!!!! ROTFLMAO!!!! One of my jobs is on a Military Post. I could find maybe 1% of the people who think that way.

Well, despite what many think, the military is actually quite well informed (on the whole) of Muslims, Iraqis, Afghanis etc. This might have something to do with the fact that after a while, the brass finally figured out that you can't fight an insurgency if your soldiers think that all the civilians are bad guys. All that does is cause a bigger rift. There are pamphlets all over the place called campy things like 'Islam and You!'

[ZenGum]

Originally Posted by queequeger

SNIP
I think, in fact, that the 90s were the only decade in recent memory where there WASN'T a vast faceless enemy trying to destroy us... mostly because there was no group that could be made into it.

Did you notice that in the 1990s there was a spate of movies on the theme of hostile Aliens attacking the Earth, and being repelled (mostly) by the US? Eg. Independence Day and Battlefield Earth. With no Earthly foe, Hollywood had to look upwards.
Meanwhile, their was a spike in nutty conspiracy theorists worried that the UN was going to attempt to take over the USA (and that civilian militias with assault rifles were gonna stop 'em!).
Some part of the American collective psyche has a strong urge to play the role of Defender of the Home Against the Foreign Foe. Partly it is economic - stimulating the arms industry. But I think it is mostly psychological. Through the history of the 20th century and a tide of movies with this theme, this is where a good many Americans see themselves. Take away the foreign foe ... and they suddenly don't have a place to be, a role to fill.
(emphasis: this is not true of all Americans. Just some, but they're enough to be influential.)

Also those comedians WERE the Chaser team, who did the stunt at the APEC meeting. And while I presume they had to interview hundreds of people to get those comments that went to air, and so those views are probably a tiny minority, nevertheless they still got those replies from some people. Strange how something can be funny and still very, very scary.

[Radar]

If I've known someone for a long time and even if I've been friends with them since childhood, if I find out that they...

• Support the war in Iraq
• Support the Patriot Act
• Aren't totally disgusted by George W. Bush or any member of his cabinet or the judges he's appointed
• Don't believe in global warming
• Read Alex Jones' websites
• Listen to Limbaugh, Hannity, Savage, Dobbs, Coulter, Beck, O'Riely, Franken, etc.
• Support the drug war
• Support making abortion illegal
• Think "illegals" are the source of our problems.
• Think "Zionists" are the problem and not those who want them dead.
• etc.

I immediately cut off all ties and inform them in no uncertain terms that we are no longer friends and I want nothing to do with them. Also that they shouldn't breed so they don't spread that stupidity.

[lookout123]

wow, how's that working out for your political ambitions Radar?

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by Radar

• Support the war in Iraq
• Support the Patriot Act
• Aren't totally disgusted by George W. Bush or any member of his cabinet or the judges he's appointed
• Don't believe in global warming
• Read Alex Jones' websites
• Listen to Limbaugh, Hannity, Savage, Dobbs, Coulter, Beck, O'Riely, Franken, etc.
• Support the drug war
• Support making abortion illegal
• Think "illegals" are the source of our problems.
• Think "Zionists" are the problem and not those who want them dead.
• etc.

Something I've been thinking about, recently -- why do these things almost always seem to go together? Why is there not more variation in this set of beliefs? (or is there and I'm simply falling prey to generalization?)

[Ibby]

I regret to see that "think gays don't deserve equal rights" isnt on your list, radar.

[lookout123]

i regret to see that anyone as generally well educated as Radar is has a list of one issue litmus tests that he will use to cut all contact with people. isolating yourself from those that disagree and surrounding yourself with a bunch of "me too's" is what leads our country further and further to the extremes. if you don't have any association with those who disagree it is easy to forget that they are real people who are generally good, fine, upstanding, intelligent people who just disagree with you on issues, and next thing you know they are the enemy.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by Ibram

I regret to see that "think gays don't deserve equal rights" isnt on your list, radar.

It's on my list. It's under "etc"

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by lookout123

i regret to see that anyone as generally well educated as Radar is has a list of one issue litmus tests that he will use to cut all contact with people. isolating yourself from those that disagree and surrounding yourself with a bunch of "me too's" is what leads our country further and further to the extremes. if you don't have any association with those who disagree it is easy to forget that they are real people who are generally good, fine, upstanding, intelligent people who just disagree with you on issues, and next thing you know they are the enemy.

Everyone has a list like this. I have one, but its pretty short: The moment I learn someone is racist, I pretty much cut all lines of communication with them. There's no reason to associate with them or try to come to terms when people are that hard set, although you can still understand their point of view and treat them like a human being. Why create more tension when your highly opposite view doesn't have much of a chance to change someone's mind? When neither side has anything to gain from the other, what's the point?

This reaction is the default for most people on their "hot" issues and those polarized issues vary from person to person. I guess if you're extremely passionate about some of these politics, the only possible outcome of discussion is one both parties should probably avoid.

[DanaC]

What I find interesting about that list is that an anti-war stance is on the same list as an anti-Palestinian stance:

Support the war in Iraq

Think "Zionists" are the problem and not those who want them dead.

Though by no means universal, the tendency in my country is for those who were opposed to the war to be also sympathetic to the Palestinian cause, and perceive Israel's actions to be the main source of aggression in that region.

The Middle East conflict is viewed very differently in Britain, to the way it is viewed in the States. There are those who are absolutely on Israel's side, and those who are on Palestines, there are those who see blame on both sides. But the majority view, I think, is that whilst it is never acceptable to send suicide bombers onto schoolbuses, it is also never alright to inflict collective punishment, or illegally occupy another people's country. Israel is seen by most, I think, as an illegal occupier and a fairly brutal one at that.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by DanaC

What I find interesting about that list is that an anti-war stance is on the same list as an anti-Palestinian stance:






Though by no means universal, the tendency in my country is for those who were opposed to the war to be also sympathetic to the Palestinian cause, and perceive Israel's actions to be the main source of aggression in that region.

The Middle East conflict is viewed very differently in Britain, to the way it is viewed in the States. There are those who are absolutely on Israel's side, and those who are on Palestines, there are those who see blame on both sides. But the majority view, I think, is that whilst it is never acceptable to send suicide bombers onto schoolbuses, it is also never alright to inflict collective punishment, or illegally occupy another people's country. Israel is seen by most, I think, as an illegal occupier and a fairly brutal one at that.

The war in Iraq has nothing to do with promoting or supporting Zionism. Israel had nothing to do with starting this war. The United States has never fought a war for the benefit of Israel or Jews, but has for Muslims.

Israel is not illegally or legally occupying someone else's land. Each and every single square inch of land Israel has was obtained honestly either won in wars or given to them by the UK in 1948. All of Israel, Jordan, and the area held by the so-called Palestinian people, and parts of Egypt, and other countries was once Israel.

Israel has given food, shelter, clothing, and support to the so-called Palestinian people, and allows Muslim men (AND WOMEN) to live, work, vote, and hold political office in Israel. No Muslim nation allows Jews to do the same or allows even Muslim women to vote or hold political office. Israel has offered to help the Palestinian territory to become a recognized country as long as they stop murdering Jews.

Israel never uses force except in its own defense and is never interested in conquest. Israel is the ONLY free nation in the middle-east.

[DanaC]

I'm not suggesting the war in Iraq and the Middle East situation are connected. I'm saying that the people who most commonly hold that view on the war also most commonly hold that view on Israel.

Israel is not illegally or legally occupying someone else's land. Each and every single square inch of land Israel has was obtained honestly either won in wars or given to them by the UK in 1948. All of Israel, Jordan, and the area held by the so-called Palestinian people, and parts of Egypt, and other countries was once Israel.

According to the United Nations, Israel is engaged in illegal occupation. This is a view shared by many Brits and indeed by many other Europeans.

Israel has given food, shelter, clothing, and support to the so-called Palestinian people, and allows Muslim men (AND WOMEN) to live, work, vote, and hold political office in Israel. No Muslim nation allows Jews to do the same or allows even Muslim women to vote or hold political office. Israel has offered to help the Palestinian territory to become a recognized country as long as they stop murdering Jews.

I don't believe that is true. It may be true of Islamic theocratic nations, but not all Moslem nations are theocratic.

Israel never uses force except in its own defense and is never interested in conquest.

Puntive measures against a people are not an act of self defense. And placing settlements in occupied territories is absolutely an act of conquest and expansion.

[lookout123]

but the UN is a failed little experiment, so who really cares?

[DanaC]

*bleh!*

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by Kitsune

Something I've been thinking about, recently -- why do these things almost always seem to go together? Why is there not more variation in this set of beliefs? (or is there and I'm simply falling prey to generalization?)

I'm assuming it has to do with personal philosophy and how they view life. I have always found that people that think the same way as me in philosophy will usually have the same political views as me.

For example, Radar is someone who more or less believes in independence, personal responsibility, and absolute freedom, leading him to libertarianism and usually the views that go with it.

While Dana, quee, and I tend to have a philosophy that favors community building which will lead us more to leftist views.