This is MY America!

Originally Posted by Flint

Who can truly say this?

The original Americans were obviously Native Americans. Next, the Spanish arrived with African slaves. The slaves revolted and the Spanish left. The Africans stayed, making them the first non-native Americans. Next, the Spanish came back to stay, making them the second non-native Americans. Spanish and Native peoples mixed, making Hispanic peoples the third non-native Americans. Next, the Dutch made settlements here, as the fourth non-native Americans. Many years later, the British came and established settlements, as the fifth non-native Americans.

If you want to get technical, the Native-Americans (and to a lesser degree: Africans, Spanish, Hispanic, Dutch) should be the ones asking whether British descendants should be allowed to stay and work here. It's especially ridiculous to people living in Texas, which is technically a part of Mexico.

History is written by the victors; and revisionist history by the victors descendants. Eurocentricism is so pervasive, it's transparent.

None of that has any bearing on our current law enforcement problem.
Pilgrims were naughty, some of my ancestors owned slaves, some were slaves, some killed natives, some were natives bad things happened a long time ago... am I supposed to feel bad about it? Why?
I don't own anyone anything for the past, no one does.

[Flint]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

... am I supposed to feel bad about it? Why? I don't own anyone anything for the past, no one does.

No. I didn't say you should feel bad, or that you owe anybody anything. Read the thread. I'm talking about how historical myths are taught as fact.

Fine. As long as you are not trying to connect it to illegal immigration in any way. I was under the impression you were, perhaps I was mistaken.

[Flint]

That was the shit-magnet aspect of it. Sorry, I've got some hand sanitizer for guests.

I was born here.

[bluecuracao]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

Fine. As long as you are not trying to connect it to illegal immigration in any way.

So what if he is? It's worth discussion.

Indigenous people have migrated back and forth for millennia, long before and even while Europeans and their descendents came in and started establishing and moving around the borders. That's kind of what's still happening with the migrant workers; but because of the restrictions put in place in the 90s, it became too difficult to go back and forth. So now a lot of them stay, and have become part of the undocumented immigrant population in the U.S.

Originally Posted by Flint

They were here, and well-established in a complex, advanced culture of 10s of millions

That's the low end of the estimate; other estimates put the population at more than 100 million, pre-Columbian and pre-disease epidemics.

Originally Posted by bluecuracao

So what if he is? It's worth discussion.

Indigenous people have migrated back and forth for millennia, long before and even while Europeans and their descendents came in and started establishing and moving around the borders. That's kind of what's still happening with the migrant workers; but because of the restrictions put in place in the 90s, it became too difficult to go back and forth. So now a lot of them stay, and have become part of the undocumented immigrant population in the U.S.



That's the low end of the estimate; other estimates put the population at more than 100 million, pre-Columbian and pre-disease epidemics.

Immigration is a legal issue, nothing more.
I am all for legal immigration, good for them, I'm happy they are here.
I don't care where someone is from, there is only one human race regardless how much melanin they may, or may not, have... as long as they do not break the law.

[bluecuracao]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

as long as they do not break the law.

rk, you said you broke the law when you jaywalked...I don't care where you're from, either, but what should we do with you?

Originally Posted by bluecuracao

rk, you said you broke the law when you jaywalked...I don't care where you're from, either, but what should we do with you?

I paid the fine.

[piercehawkeye45]

I would think it was closer to the 100 millions, the Americas weren't empty when we came and there is a lot of land.

Sad that the worst holocaust of all time goes so unnoticed and no one seems to give any second thought...

[jinx]

Then why do you say this;

If you want to get technical, the Native-Americans (and to a lesser degree: Africans, Spanish, Hispanic, Dutch) should be the ones asking whether British descendants should be allowed to stay and work here.

Why do you accept that many different peoples came here different ways at different times (yet call them all one thing) but have an issue with the brit colonists?

[Flint]

You're arguing with yourself. I can't help you.

[bluecuracao]

Jinx does have a point there--that quote of yours she noted is confusing, Flint.

[xoxoxoBruce]

That slight of hand...slight of keyboard?.... is part of his charm. Ask him.

[jinx]

I'm not arguing at all, I'm trying to figure out what the fuck you're on about.