Surgery VS Ransom - Page 4

Aliantha · 03-25-2007, 08:28 PM

lol...no problem. It was my pleasure...really.

lumberjim · 03-25-2007, 08:31 PM

now now.....neither of you is any bigger a moron than the other......

TheMercenary · 03-25-2007, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aliantha

lol...no problem. It was my pleasure...really.

Aliantha · 03-25-2007, 08:33 PM

Well in this case, I'm quite happy to give the floor to him...or even you lj.

Spexxvet · 03-25-2007, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumberjim

I'd do what it takes to save my kid. I wouldn't demand that you do it.

Nobody's demanding anything. Obviously, there could be a scenario where you couldn't "do what it takes". What then?

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumberjim

i'm disgusted by the bald faced entitlement some people exhibit.

You view this as "entitlement"?

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumberjim

I didn't say let them die.

I was responding to this, not you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by freshnesschronic

Yeah man. Shit happens. Life's hard. Get a helmet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumberjim

You put this retarded analogy up there and expect people to treat it seriously? Really. re-read it. it's retarded.

People ARE treating it seriously. Even you. Does that make you retarded?

TheMercenary · 03-25-2007, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Nobody's demanding anything.

Why sure they are. All of the latest democratic pundits are preaching it. People who are supporting allowing illegal aliens to stay in this country are preaching it. People who think they deserve a handout are demanding it.

lumberjim · 03-25-2007, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

People ARE treating it seriously. Even you. Does that make you retarded?

yes! yes, it does. thanks.

Spexxvet · 03-25-2007, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumberjim

yes! yes, it does. thanks.

No no - thank you!

Beestie · 03-25-2007, 09:44 PM

Its not the United States government's job to spare no expense to keep everyone alive as long as possible. Sorry.

And if you make doctors government employees then our health care system will end up looking like our education system. Yep, everybody gets an education. The exact same education. Whether you live in Westchester, NY or Selma, Alabama.

You want government-provided health care? Its available. Its called the United States Military. But generals still get better treatment than privates.

Stop wanting stuff for free. Just stop it.

DanaC · 03-26-2007, 04:37 AM

Not necessarily for free Beestie. In the UK we have the NHS and that delivers treatment 'free at the point of need', but we've all paid for it. We've paid for it in taxes and we've paid for it with National Insurance contributions. Even the very poor, make a small contribution (very small) out of their benefit payments. It isn't a perfect system by any means, but it seems much fairer to me. The wealthy usually pay and get themselves private treatment for some stuff, but interestingly, they rarely use private General Practitioners: for routine stuff they usually use the same system everybody else uses, because it's a good service and because they, like everyone else have already paid a small contribution to it.

Clodfobble · 03-26-2007, 08:22 AM

Yeah, if I wasn't already convinced how much the NHS sucked before, all the various threads here about it by UK folks have really won me over...

Spexxvet · 03-26-2007, 08:28 AM

Getting back to the point.

I like Happy Monkey's analogy better, so...

How is it different? Ton of money for medical, or you die. Ton of money to help you from falling off a cliff, or you die.

Sundae · 03-26-2007, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

Yeah, if I wasn't already convinced how much the NHS sucked before, all the various threads here about it by UK folks have really won me over...

I work in the NHS and I do whinge about the NHS - it should be much better for the amount of money it costs. But I think it's much better than nothing.

When my Dad was taken into hospital three weeks ago the one thing Mum didn't have to worry about finding money to pay for it. He had a whole series of tests and ended up lying in a hospital bed waiting for a theatre slot in order to have angioplasty.

We were frustrated that it took 13 days from admission to discharge but we knew he was in the best place. We moaned (esp Mum who doesn't drive and had to get lifts/ take the bus for the best part of two weeks - and missed him terribly of course) and commented on how in another country he'd have had the operation the same day. We didn't really talk about the fact that in another country they might have had to sell the house to pay for the operation, or in fact he might just have died (not referring to America here of course). Too depressing- better to moan about the bus journey instead.

The positive part of the waiting is that Dad is easily bored and hates to be away from all his little projects, so he promises faithfully he won't suffer chest pain stoically ever again - he'll be at the Doctors the same afternoon.

DanaC · 03-26-2007, 09:08 AM

Glad to hear your Dad's on the mend SG.

My Dad has been taken into hospital for emergency treatment five times in the last two years. He has to have regular oxygen treatment and also uses a nebuliser daily. As a pensioner he doesn't even have to pay for his prescriptions.

For myself, I have regular medication which even at the standard prescription charge of £6.50 per item would amount to approx. £45 per month, except that I am able to buy a prepay certificate for £90 per year. When I was unemployed for two years I didn't even have to pay that. In the UK we moan a lot about the NHS....because it's not perfect and it could be run much better. What we don't have in the UK is an acceptance of the fact that if someone is poor they should just be abandoned to their fate. If I have to see my doctor, I don't have to check what money I have first. Dentists are a little different, we have some access to dentists on NHS, but still have to pay charges (even though much reduced from private prices) and lo and behold the number of Brits who don't go regularly to a dentist is very high. I recently had some serious pain in my tooth and went for a check up: I was told I needed two fillings and a root canal. For the treatment and the sedation ( I am dental phobic) I will have to pay £180. I am still in pain and haven't been for the treatment yet because I can't afford it. The idea that someone might have to make such a decision about something more serious appalls me. The sooner one seeks treatment the better usually, and many people who live in countries where seeing a doctor isn't free at the point of need will make the same calculation I have made over my teeth and just not go.....until they absolutely have to, at which point their overall health and even life may have been put at much greater risk by the delay.

TheMercenary · 03-26-2007, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanaC

Not necessarily for free Beestie. In the UK we have the NHS and that delivers treatment 'free at the point of need', but we've all paid for it. We've paid for it in taxes and we've paid for it with National Insurance contributions. Even the very poor, make a small contribution (very small) out of their benefit payments. It isn't a perfect system by any means, but it seems much fairer to me. The wealthy usually pay and get themselves private treatment for some stuff, but interestingly, they rarely use private General Practitioners: for routine stuff they usually use the same system everybody else uses, because it's a good service and because they, like everyone else have already paid a small contribution to it.

And your taxes are out of this world. Your death tax on estates is even worse. VAT is bad enough. We don't want more taxes. I don't want 50% of my pay going to fund health care.

03-25-2007, 08:28 PM	#46
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	lol...no problem. It was my pleasure...really. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

03-25-2007, 08:31 PM	#47
lumberjim I can hear my ears Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 25,571	now now.....neither of you is any bigger a moron than the other...... __________________ This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality Embrace this moment, remember We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion ~MJKeenan

03-25-2007, 08:33 PM	#49
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	Well in this case, I'm quite happy to give the floor to him...or even you lj. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

03-25-2007, 09:44 PM	#54
Beestie -◊\|≡·∙■·∙≡\|◊- Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Parts unknown. Posts: 4,081	Its not the United States government's job to spare no expense to keep everyone alive as long as possible. Sorry. And if you make doctors government employees then our health care system will end up looking like our education system. Yep, everybody gets an education. The exact same education. Whether you live in Westchester, NY or Selma, Alabama. You want government-provided health care? Its available. Its called the United States Military. But generals still get better treatment than privates. Stop wanting stuff for free. Just stop it. __________________ ♠ ♥ ♣ ♦

03-26-2007, 08:22 AM	#56
Clodfobble UNDER CONDITIONAL MITIGATION Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 20,012	Yeah, if I wasn't already convinced how much the NHS sucked before, all the various threads here about it by UK folks have really won me over... __________________ My book My other book My spirit animal

03-26-2007, 04:37 AM	#55
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	Not necessarily for free Beestie. In the UK we have the NHS and that delivers treatment 'free at the point of need', but we've all paid for it. We've paid for it in taxes and we've paid for it with National Insurance contributions. Even the very poor, make a small contribution (very small) out of their benefit payments. It isn't a perfect system by any means, but it seems much fairer to me. The wealthy usually pay and get themselves private treatment for some stuff, but interestingly, they rarely use private General Practitioners: for routine stuff they usually use the same system everybody else uses, because it's a good service and because they, like everyone else have already paid a small contribution to it.

03-26-2007, 08:28 AM	#57
Spexxvet Makes some feel uncomfortable Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 10,346	Getting back to the point. I like Happy Monkey's analogy better, so... How is it different? Ton of money for medical, or you die. Ton of money to help you from falling off a cliff, or you die. __________________ "I'm certainly free, nay compelled, to spread the gospel of Spex. " - xoxoxoBruce

03-26-2007, 09:08 AM	#59
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	Glad to hear your Dad's on the mend SG. My Dad has been taken into hospital for emergency treatment five times in the last two years. He has to have regular oxygen treatment and also uses a nebuliser daily. As a pensioner he doesn't even have to pay for his prescriptions. For myself, I have regular medication which even at the standard prescription charge of £6.50 per item would amount to approx. £45 per month, except that I am able to buy a prepay certificate for £90 per year. When I was unemployed for two years I didn't even have to pay that. In the UK we moan a lot about the NHS....because it's not perfect and it could be run much better. What we don't have in the UK is an acceptance of the fact that if someone is poor they should just be abandoned to their fate. If I have to see my doctor, I don't have to check what money I have first. Dentists are a little different, we have some access to dentists on NHS, but still have to pay charges (even though much reduced from private prices) and lo and behold the number of Brits who don't go regularly to a dentist is very high. I recently had some serious pain in my tooth and went for a check up: I was told I needed two fillings and a root canal. For the treatment and the sedation ( I am dental phobic) I will have to pay £180. I am still in pain and haven't been for the treatment yet because I can't afford it. The idea that someone might have to make such a decision about something more serious appalls me. The sooner one seeks treatment the better usually, and many people who live in countries where seeing a doctor isn't free at the point of need will make the same calculation I have made over my teeth and just not go.....until they absolutely have to, at which point their overall health and even life may have been put at much greater risk by the delay.

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