Is it ever *ok* to cheat?

[Madman]

On topic: Only if it is with your friends... :p

Off topic: Note: three posts in one day! Damn! I'm on a roll!

[kerosene]

Iggy and Spode, I should have stayed in Kansas, and we could have all formed a commune!

To me, cheating is only cheating if dishonesty is involved. I would consider it cheating in my relationship if my husband was not honest with me about a person he was in love with and planned to leave me for. And at that point, I would realize the relationship is no longer worth continuing. I trust that he will be honest with me about this if it ever occurs. However, I am optimistic that this will not happen, since we are honest with each other and I know that he loves me and I love him. I don't expect that he will never *want* another woman. I believe that is unrealistic as it would be unrealistic for me to never *want* another man. There is also a definite level of emotional connection with other people that we recognize and free each other to experience. I know that because we give each other all the freedom we want in the relationship that there is no reason for jealousy or dishonesty. This has enriched our relationship.

Oh yeah, and our marriage vows were impromptu. I am fairly certain there was no inclusion of any of the standard vows that are heard most often in weddings. This was what was right for us.

I respect the views of others. I think LJ mentioned in a separate thread that monogamy is a social structure that we humans created (something like that). I agree and choose not to completely accept that structure, but I respect it. Having been cheated on, I remember what it felt like to expect that fidelity and I will admit (boo, hiss) that I have been dishonest about a situation of infidelity in my past, as well. I learned something from that...that for me, to expect that or have that expected of me isn't what I want.

[lumberjim]

Originally Posted by case

Iggy and Spode, I should have stayed in Kansas, and we could have all formed a commune!

To me, cheating is only cheating if dishonesty is involved. I would consider it cheating in my relationship if my husband was not honest with me about a person he was in love with and planned to leave me for. And at that point, I would realize the relationship is no longer worth continuing. I trust that he will be honest with me about this if it ever occurs. However, I am optimistic that this will not happen, since we are honest with each other and I know that he loves me and I love him. I don't expect that he will never *want* another woman. I believe that is unrealistic as it would be unrealistic for me to never *want* another man. There is also a definite level of emotional connection with other people that we recognize and free each other to experience. I know that because we give each other all the freedom we want in the relationship that there is no reason for jealousy or

this is a thread about cheating, and that implies secrecy. if you know your spouse has a friend that they love, or if you know they are boinking someone else, and you're ok with it....then it's not really cheating, is it?

do you always feel the same way about it, or does your opinion waver? You allude to 'experiencing' other people. In thinking about this logically, I would expect that it would be easier to deal with your partner becoming emotionally attached to someone else if it were a platonic relationship. the posts elspode has shared about selene being out on dates, however, have the opposite impact on my imagination.

I think it might be harder for me to deal with it if my spouse started spending time away from me with another man.....even if I was positive that nothing physical went down....and definitely if there were. harder than dealing with a temporary infidelity, that is. neither would be any fun...as you say, if there were dishonesty involved, and it would take time to heal....I just think that it would be a whole lot easier to forgive a roll in the hay then it would to forgive a secret love on the side.

[kerosene]

Originally Posted by lumberjim

this is a thread about cheating, and that implies secrecy. if you know your spouse has a friend that they love, or if you know they are boinking someone else, and you're ok with it....then it's not really cheating, is it?

Nope.

Originally Posted by lumberjim

do you always feel the same way about it, or does your opinion waver? You allude to 'experiencing' other people. In thinking about this logically, I would expect that it would be easier to deal with your partner becoming emotionally attached to someone else if it were a platonic relationship. the posts elspode has shared about selene being out on dates, however, have the opposite impact on my imagination.

Hmmm....I feel the same way about this all the time. In the beginning of our relationship it wasn't quite the same as it is now, but it has changed and I expect,accept and embrace that. Platonic relationships are cool. Platonic can mean anything you want it to. I am not sure what you are asking me, here but I hope I have sufficiently clarified.

Originally Posted by lumberjim

I think it might be harder for me to deal with it if my spouse started spending time away from me with another man.....even if I was positive that nothing physical went down....and definitely if there were. harder than dealing with a temporary infidelity, that is. neither would be any fun...as you say, if there were dishonesty involved, and it would take time to heal....I just think that it would be a whole lot easier to forgive a roll in the hay then it would to forgive a secret love on the side.

I could completely understand that it would be harder to forgive a roll in the hay than a secret love, but if there is no secret and an understanding of our expectations (or lack thereof) there is nothing to forgive. We enjoy giving each other this freedom. The way I see it: I don't really have a right to limit him to what he should experience and I don't want to be limited either.

I want to also mention that this has not been an excuse to "boink" everyone out there. Honesty with each other is not exclusive. I would never want to hurt another person for my own desires just because I have a desire to "experience" something. These things have been pretty rare.

[Elspode]

Originally Posted by lumberjim

the posts elspode has shared about selene being out on dates, however, have the opposite impact on my imagination.

My posts on that topic are meant to reveal my own state of mind at a given moment - the moment of the posting, actually. It isn't required, or even possible (IMHO) to be always and utterly at ease with everything about a poly relationship.

It is my own internal and minute to minute misgivings I share. I'm not intending to indict the *concept* of poly/open marriage. I feel as though that sharing what goes through my head is far more honest than waxing eloquent about the philosophical, emotional and intellectual superiority of poly relationships. I have, in fact, seen someone do exactly that on an e-list recently, and watched with some bemusement as his wife divorced him a couple of short months later. I'm pretty sure I've mentioned somewhere along the line that this sort of thing isn't right for everyone, and on some evenings, it isn't right for me, either. But I usually get over it once I've whined enough.

Mostly, I'm whining because I'm not exactly a hot property right now, while Selene is doing rather well. I am happy for her, unhappy for me, and that's a part of the reality of this type of relationship. I don't really mean to communicate anything other than my own chagrin, and to provide some insight on the inner workings of insecurity and polyamory in action. Think of it as my offering in the intellectual voyeurism contest.

[Sheldonrs]

I have never understood the mindset of someone who dates/sleeps with a married person, hoping they will leave their spouse and marry them.
All you are getting is someone who cheats on the person they are married to.

That's like stealing a great looking car and parking it the middle of the worst neighborhood and leaving the doors un-locked.

[wolf]

No. Simply, no. Even a three year old knows what cheating is, albeit in a different context, and knows it's wrong.

[Shawnee123]

I like what you had to say, Dagney. I hope to have a relationship of mutual respect like that someday. Respecting, not only by not cheating, but with your words, and actions, and the way you live your life.

Through some my fault and some not my fault, I have failed to find that so far.

Cheers to you and yours!

[Dagney]

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

I like what you had to say, Dagney. I hope to have a relationship of mutual respect like that someday. Respecting, not only by not cheating, but with your words, and actions, and the way you live your life.

Through some my fault and some not my fault, I have failed to find that so far.

Cheers to you and yours!

Thanks Shawnee

I have always thought that relationships were best when a strong foundation is laid. I treat people the way I wish to be treated (for the most part, I'm not always perfect, especially when the bitch engine is revving). And part of that, is to treat people with the respect that I'd like to be given.

I can't remember who said it, and I think it was Zippy actually - that a marriage is not 50/50 - you can't just give 'half'. You have to give your everything - and so does your partner - it's 100/100. To me, cheating, either physically, emotionally, or in any other manner, takes away from that 100/100 ratio, and damages the foundation of the relationship - it chips away at the trust and respect that you have for your partner, and I strongly think that cheating chips away at your own self respect, as well as the self respect of the person you're cheating on. (Been there, done that, being cheated on is devastating)

In regards to the Man, it took me a _long_ time to find him. And well, there are days where I wonder what lottery I won to have him just 'drop' into my life. Some day - I'll put together the story of how we met and what transpired to bring us together. It's an interesting story.

In the past few months, I've figured out that the guys I dated previously (for the most part) did not treat me the way I deserved to be treated. That's partly my fault - because I let them treat me in a way that was less than what I deserved. It was quite the eye opening experience - that's for sure.

I'm not sure what changed actually - if it was finding him, and the recognition of being treated well came after that - or if I changed beforehand, making it the right 'time' in my life for him to find me. I know that in one of our first long conversations, he said that while he felt terrible that I had been through so many painful things in my past, that those things were what eventually made me 'ready' to be found by him - and vice versa of course.

Either way - I'm tremendously glad that we're together

[Shawnee123]

Originally Posted by Dagney

Thanks Shawnee

In the past few months, I've figured out that the guys I dated previously (for the most part) did not treat me the way I deserved to be treated. That's partly my fault - because I let them treat me in a way that was less than what I deserved. It was quite the eye opening experience - that's for sure.

That has been my situation, selling myself short. Actually, my ex husband is a great guy...we are just better at being best friends than we were at being married. But the couple relationships I've had since then I've let them take me for granted.

Your words and feelings are inspiring. I feel that if I don't find that right guy I'll be fine, and I'm not looking for it...but the romantic side of me hopes I win that kind of lottery: a caring, respecting, funny guy who I can count on!

[Dagney]

I'd offer you his brother, but his wife may not like that

I seriously stopped looking, and he (almost literally) fell in my lap.

[Shawnee123]

You must tell the story!

[Dagney]

Once upon a time.....

Nah, I changed my mind.

[yesman065]

Els you are the first one to share the inner workings of a poly relationship and it has been quite eye opening for me. I appreciate your honesty and candid posts. Thanks for that!

[yesman065]

I find it very fascinating, I think I get what you mean, but the whole idea is so contradictory to everything I have ever known it just - well I dunno. I don't mean that I'm against it or negative towards it in any way either.