What is it to be Christian ?

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

I think that the only common thread among all Christians is the belief that Jesus is on a supernatural level above prophet.

That is a Christian... a follower of Christ does their VERY BEST to live by his teachings. A very different person all together.
One is the politics of faith, the other is a faithful.

Jesus' word is very clear on many things, but in the US you will find the worst hypocrisy on many levels... most "pro-livers" will line up howling for blood ready to cast that first stone every time there is an execution because they just love to support and sanction state murder. A clear hypocrisy of many of Christ's teachings... but they will always cite the OT, just like with homosexuality, an abomination, not even a sin, same as eating shrimp, wearing a polyester/cotton blend shirt or planting peas and corn in the same field.
But, they will wash their car on Saturday, the sabbath, a MORTAL SIN, every damn weekend, without blinking an eye even though Christ clearly stated to obey the Commandments.
I think it's cute, it shows where the priorities clearly lay.

Urbane Guerilla , you know how to make me smile . I bet there was more than one skinned knee when Jesus told his overly-serious disciples to let the children come to him .

[smoothmoniker]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

Jesus' word is very clear on many things, but in the US you will find the worst hypocrisy on many levels... most "pro-livers" will line up howling for blood ready to cast that first stone every time there is an execution because they just love to support and sanction state murder. A clear hypocrisy of many of Christ's teachings... but they will always cite the OT, just like with homosexuality, an abomination, not even a sin, same as eating shrimp, wearing a polyester/cotton blend shirt or planting peas and corn in the same field.
But, they will wash their car on Saturday, the sabbath, a MORTAL SIN, every damn weekend, without blinking an eye even though Christ clearly stated to obey the Commandments.
I think it's cute, it shows where the priorities clearly lay.

You know what bugs the hell out of me? This statement is really, really bad analysis of both the bible, and of the theology that comes out of it. But you won't waste 3 minutes of honest-to-god attention to unravel any of it, because the conclusion you've already come to fits too well with your existing view of the world. Let's start with just this:

!) There are many pro-lifers who are ardently anti-death penalty. You just don't want to see them, because they don't fit your conception of how things are.

2) The injunctions against homosexuality aren't limited to the Old Testament, they are repeated in the New Testament. And just what do you think "abomination" means, that it's somehow a separate category from "sin"?

3) The command to obey the Sabbath was specifically, emphatically overturned by Jesus.

I'm so f*%king tired of being lectured in biblical exegesis by hacks and drive-bys.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by smoothmoniker

You know what bugs the hell out of me? This statement is really, really bad analysis of both the bible, and of the theology that comes out of it. But you won't waste 3 minutes of honest-to-god attention to unravel any of it, because the conclusion you've already come to fits too well with your existing view of the world. Let's start with just this:

!) There are many pro-lifers who are ardently anti-death penalty. You just don't want to see them, because they don't fit your conception of how things are.

2) The injunctions against homosexuality aren't limited to the Old Testament, they are repeated in the New Testament. And just what do you think "abomination" means, that it's somehow a separate category from "sin"?

3) The command to obey the Sabbath was specifically, emphatically overturned by Jesus.

I'm so f*%king tired of being lectured in biblical exegesis by hacks and drive-bys.

Citations? References?

RK probably sees anti-choice and pro-death penalty linked because they are both supported by conservative repubicans.

Hey, if you are anti-abortion and anti-death penalty you are truly pro-life, no sweat.
The reference in Romans was specifically referring to the OT and it is still an abomination and not a sin. Yes, an abomination is separate from sin... I learned that in seminary prep in college, it is pretty basic stuff. I am not a hack. Do you think eating shrimp is a sin? Being in the same house with your wife during her time of the month? Boy, we sure have a lot of stoning to do!
I was not lecturing you or anyone else... I don't know you... who the hell are you? I was addressing common conceptions and nothing else.
If you are so tired of it, leave it alone.

[mrnoodle]

smoothmoniker will pwn you on this. He is better than me at explaining the faith, and from what I can tell, he is much better at walking the walk as well. If he wants to weigh in, and you actually listen to him, you might lurn somethin.

no pressure, sm.

[Undertoad]

Skeptics annotated bible says in 1 Corinthians 6 says 6:9-10 means

Paul lists ten groups of people who will never enter heaven. These include thieves, along with the "effeminate" and "abusers of themselves with mankind."

6:9-10:

6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Nor effeminate? Not only are the homosexuals banned from heaven, but the metrosexuals as well! Pretty harsh.

In that case, nice goin Nood, with your manly approach you are certain to make it.

Oh... it "mean" that in their "translation" does it?

The NIV, that tract, says a lot too.

[mrnoodle]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Skeptics annotated bible says in 1 Corinthians 6 says 6:9-10 means

6:9-10:

Nor effeminate? Not only are the homosexuals banned from heaven, but the metrosexuals as well! Pretty harsh.

In that case, nice goin Nood, with your manly approach you are certain to make it.

You cherry pick out the homosexual reference, but that list included more. "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?" is important, yes. But so is this passage from Romans (which quotes Psalms), written by the same author (I think).

What shall we conclude then? Are we any better? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin. 10As it is written:
"There is no one righteous, not even one;
11there is no one who understands,
no one who seeks God.
12All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one."

So, although single verses throughout the Bible make convenient strawmen for people to attack faith, it's important to get the whole picture.

edit: also, Galatians 3:10-12

10All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law." 11Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, "The righteous will live by faith." 12The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, "The man who does these things will live by them."

Edit 2:

Thanks for your vote of confidence, btw. But my sins are pretty obvious to anyone, as are everyone else's, and "being manly" isn't going to erase them. It's not the point.

I'm not entirely sure that anything is macho enough to erase the fact that there is a mrnoodle/Ann Coulter fetish pic on the internet.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by mrnoodle

...I'm not entirely sure that anything is macho enough to erase the fact that there is a mrnoodle/Ann Coulter fetish pic on the internet.

And you said she liked it.

[mrnoodle]

She didn't try to stop me.

[Aliantha]

Personally, I don't think anyone's going to heaven.

[Spexxvet]

I smell a new tag line - The Cellar - This ain't the way to Heaven

[Aliantha]

Unless you're planning a trip to Australia of course.

[Flint]

Originally Posted by mrnoodle

End of point.

You haven't understood my point: any "one true book" claim facilitates something that is worth dying for, worth killing for. See: history of mankind.