If only - Page 4

John Adams · 10-29-2006, 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9th Engineer

I've always wondered why people who waste time while on payroll don't get the boot no matter what sites they browse...

I work 3 shifts a week 12 hours per shift. I spend about 2 to 4 hours of a normal shift working and the rest of the time reading, watching TV, browsing, listening to music etc. (if I could just figure out a way to work out...).

So according to you I should get fired. The problem is, I am paid to be available. Yes that's right, I am paid to be available, the nature of what I do the work can not be predicted, it comes when something happens, so when everything is going smoothly I don't have anything to do, if something happens I have to respond to it immediately. The expertise I have in my field is what allows me to get the pay I do, the nature of my field is what dictates my work habits.

What was this thread about again?

bluecuracao · 10-29-2006, 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9th Engineer

I'll judge who can get away with patronizing me. You can try to blow me off as pompous, but I don't assume ability goes hand in hand with age. Since I don't have to worry about your opinion of me holding my career back I'm free to call bs where I see it.

Sure, you're free to do whatever you like. Including confusing opinion with 'real world' advice. Best of luck to you in your dealings with folks throughout the course of your career.

glatt · 10-29-2006, 08:24 AM

I'm a middle manager. I "catch" people surfing the web on a fairly regular basis. I walk into a room, and there are people checking My Space or whatever. I usually don't make an issue of it. They close whatever they are reading, and I pretend I didn't see it.

Those same employees are getting their jobs done. They have a certain workload they are expected to complete, and they complete that workload. Now if there is an employee who isn't getting their work done, and they are caught frequently surfing the web, that surfing can be one of several nails that close their coffin. But it's never the only reason for firing someone.

You may notice that I spend some time on the Cellar at work too. My job is flexible. I multitask. I can have the Cellar open in the background, while dealing with other stuff at the same time. Make phone calls, respond to e-mails, get up and go to a meeting, all while the Cellar is open. Some days get really hectic, and I never bother to open the Cellar because it would be a distraction. I've been in other jobs where having the Cellar open wouldn't have been possible, because I wasn't seated at a computer much. This one isn't like that.

20 years ago, people would goof off by visiting with co-workers at the water cooler. Now they do it on the Web. Same thing.

BobT · 10-29-2006, 09:29 AM

Much to my dismay, I was thrust into a management position early in my career. I had to learn that the people that worked for me were not as motivated, and in many cases not as intelligent as I. The other lesson was that despite the fact that they were not performing their tasks in the same fashion as I would have, the job was getting done “satisfactorily”. Industry survives on “satisfactory” performance.

If the work product of the individual is “satisfactory”, their annual job review should reflect a “satisfactory” evaluation. If their work product is suffering from too much time “on the net” they should be placed on probation and considered for replacement as a “unit of production” in the workplace. Likewise, if an employee is exceeding their work expectation, then they should get a “superior” review, and a “superior” raise. If a worker has too much “spare” time on their hands, then it could be their supervisor’s fault. They may be being asked to accomplish too little in their work day. Additional tasks should be found for them. This is a test of their manager’s supervisory skills.

Some of the most productive workers in American history have been those who take frequent “breaks”. Thomas Edison, for one, comes to mind. If you study his work habits you will find that he took frequent breaks. I don’t think that anyone can find fault with the sum total of his work product.

9th Engineer · 10-29-2006, 01:19 PM

With the exception of perhaps JA's position I still think the whole issue is a rotten apple. I agree that frequent breaks are a good idea, the Japanese have put it to great success, but most office workers spend more than 10 hours a day at the office! As an aside, a Japanese office worker would probably think he was about to be fired if he found himself with sizable chunks of free time in the day, they believe that "those who can do the work, get the work". I'm not singling out individuals here and saying "If you don't spend every minute of your shift working as fast as you can then you're a lazy bum!". If a valuable employee has too little to do then his management is messing up, if it's an excuse of "well the world works by getting by on average" then ask yourself if you think it has anything to do with our failing industry practices. Not everything can be conveniently blamed on top management.

Undertoad · 10-29-2006, 01:30 PM

Quote:

I had to learn that the people that worked for me were not as motivated, and in many cases not as intelligent as I.

Part of the job of manager is to motivate. Part of the job of manager is to develop one's people.

Now, very rarely is the manager given the tools or clearance to really do that, or even the example, which is why --

Quote:

Not everything can be conveniently blamed on top management.

Yeah, not everything. The current tw figure is 85% of all problems can be traced to top management. I think that's a little understated.

xoxoxoBruce · 10-29-2006, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glatt

big snip~ 20 years ago, people would goof off by visiting with co-workers at the water cooler. Now they do it on the Web. Same thing.

Not exactly. One employee goofing off on the web is better than two, or more, at the water cooler. Two on the web are not dependent on the other to stop. Soooo, it's more gooder.

xoxoxoBruce · 10-29-2006, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9th Engineer

If a valuable employee has too little to do then his management is messing up, if it's an excuse of "well the world works by getting by on average" then ask yourself if you think it has anything to do with our failing industry practices. Not everything can be conveniently blamed on top management.

If you haven't checked lately, American workers are the most productive in the world.
Most jobs depend on interaction with others.
Visualize a well oiled machine....got that?
It's nothing like that. It's herky, jerky, pulsing and surging, through no fault of the workers.

I've had the great displeasure of being the dreaded Time Study Man. That vile taker of bread from mouths of babies...the grinch that stole a night out on the town.
I can tell you with great confidence, Corporate America is dancing in the boardrooms, when workers are productive 6.5 hours out of 8.

BobT · 10-29-2006, 02:14 PM

a lot easier to spot 6 employees goofing off at the water cooler than 15 surfing the web. at least at the water cooler they feel more conspicuous....and are!

BobT · 10-29-2006, 02:16 PM

i employ 15 people. if i could get 6.5 hours of productive work from each of them every day i would be RICH!!!.....but.....i'm not

busterb · 10-29-2006, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Not everything can be conveniently blamed on top management.

Yeah, not everything. The current tw figure is 85% of all problems can be traced to top management. I think that's a little understated.

I'm sure top management had nothing to with why my new washer has no lint filter. Boy they must have saved +- 3 cents a unit.
If the 9th engineer needs a nice summer job, I just might can help him find a nice place in oil field work. Welding crews, offshore, all kinds of construction. A live look at the work world. all in fun of course.

JayMcGee · 10-29-2006, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9th Engineer

I am in my sophmore year at university, however, I'm putting in more hours a week than 90% of full time workers. I have 25 hours of actual class per week and I have about 15-20 hours of assignments and studying on top of that. I also work 4-5 hours a week at UPMC (google it) in the Renal-Electrolyte department on a clinical study on the cognition of patients in end stage renal failure. By the time I 'get out in the workplace' I'll be almost 30 (two more years of undergrad then I'm applying to a 6 year M.D/Ph.D program here).

ah... a professional student...

9th Engineer · 10-29-2006, 07:50 PM

Nope, just a premed student who loves what he does and thinks that time not spent getting an edge over his fellow students is time wasted. I'm a little unusual in that I have a MUCH heavier course load than most other premeds since I'm in Bioengineering. It pays off in the end though because most premeds need as close to a 4.0 as they can get, while I'm almost guarenteed entrance so long as I keep more than a 3.3-3.5. Plus I'm an engineer at heart, I'm not satisfied with just knowing the processes, I want to make humans better, smarter, stronger, more resistant to disease, anything you can think of I want to do. That's one reason I can't understand people who waste time with trivial things, there's so much to learn and figure out that you don't have time to get sidetracked.
Plus, I'll be honest, job security freaks the hell out of me. If I become a surgeon I'm guarenteed employment for life, and if I get a Ph.D to do research I can go anywhere in the world and work for anyone if things go to hell here.

footfootfoot · 10-29-2006, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morethanpretty

I will NOT allow my thread to be hijacked! I am intensly curious as to what the cellarites think of the Real Doll! I must needs to know! NOW!

I might be a little hopped up on energy drinks because I recieved less than 3 hours of sleep last night...

Girlfriend, your thread is SO hijacked right now.

JayMcGee · 10-29-2006, 07:54 PM

justifications, Nineth, not reasons......

10-29-2006, 01:19 PM	#50
9th Engineer Bioengineer and aspiring lawer Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 872	With the exception of perhaps JA's position I still think the whole issue is a rotten apple. I agree that frequent breaks are a good idea, the Japanese have put it to great success, but most office workers spend more than 10 hours a day at the office! As an aside, a Japanese office worker would probably think he was about to be fired if he found himself with sizable chunks of free time in the day, they believe that "those who can do the work, get the work". I'm not singling out individuals here and saying "If you don't spend every minute of your shift working as fast as you can then you're a lazy bum!". If a valuable employee has too little to do then his management is messing up, if it's an excuse of "well the world works by getting by on average" then ask yourself if you think it has anything to do with our failing industry practices. Not everything can be conveniently blamed on top management. __________________ The most valuable renewable resource is stupidity.

10-29-2006, 07:50 PM	#58
9th Engineer Bioengineer and aspiring lawer Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 872	Nope, just a premed student who loves what he does and thinks that time not spent getting an edge over his fellow students is time wasted. I'm a little unusual in that I have a MUCH heavier course load than most other premeds since I'm in Bioengineering. It pays off in the end though because most premeds need as close to a 4.0 as they can get, while I'm almost guarenteed entrance so long as I keep more than a 3.3-3.5. Plus I'm an engineer at heart, I'm not satisfied with just knowing the processes, I want to make humans better, smarter, stronger, more resistant to disease, anything you can think of I want to do. That's one reason I can't understand people who waste time with trivial things, there's so much to learn and figure out that you don't have time to get sidetracked. Plus, I'll be honest, job security freaks the hell out of me. If I become a surgeon I'm guarenteed employment for life, and if I get a Ph.D to do research I can go anywhere in the world and work for anyone if things go to hell here. __________________ The most valuable renewable resource is stupidity.

10-29-2006, 07:54 PM	#60
JayMcGee Cardigan-wearing man Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Much Binding In The Marsh Posts: 1,082	justifications, Nineth, not reasons...... __________________ I like wearing cardigans...... my current favourite is an orange cable-knit with real leatherette buttons.

10-29-2006, 08:24 AM	#48
glatt ™ Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 27,717	I'm a middle manager. I "catch" people surfing the web on a fairly regular basis. I walk into a room, and there are people checking My Space or whatever. I usually don't make an issue of it. They close whatever they are reading, and I pretend I didn't see it. Those same employees are getting their jobs done. They have a certain workload they are expected to complete, and they complete that workload. Now if there is an employee who isn't getting their work done, and they are caught frequently surfing the web, that surfing can be one of several nails that close their coffin. But it's never the only reason for firing someone. You may notice that I spend some time on the Cellar at work too. My job is flexible. I multitask. I can have the Cellar open in the background, while dealing with other stuff at the same time. Make phone calls, respond to e-mails, get up and go to a meeting, all while the Cellar is open. Some days get really hectic, and I never bother to open the Cellar because it would be a distraction. I've been in other jobs where having the Cellar open wouldn't have been possible, because I wasn't seated at a computer much. This one isn't like that. 20 years ago, people would goof off by visiting with co-workers at the water cooler. Now they do it on the Web. Same thing.

10-29-2006, 09:29 AM	#49
BobT we are fuel Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: cape coral, florida Posts: 71	Much to my dismay, I was thrust into a management position early in my career. I had to learn that the people that worked for me were not as motivated, and in many cases not as intelligent as I. The other lesson was that despite the fact that they were not performing their tasks in the same fashion as I would have, the job was getting done “satisfactorily”. Industry survives on “satisfactory” performance. If the work product of the individual is “satisfactory”, their annual job review should reflect a “satisfactory” evaluation. If their work product is suffering from too much time “on the net” they should be placed on probation and considered for replacement as a “unit of production” in the workplace. Likewise, if an employee is exceeding their work expectation, then they should get a “superior” review, and a “superior” raise. If a worker has too much “spare” time on their hands, then it could be their supervisor’s fault. They may be being asked to accomplish too little in their work day. Additional tasks should be found for them. This is a test of their manager’s supervisory skills. Some of the most productive workers in American history have been those who take frequent “breaks”. Thomas Edison, for one, comes to mind. If you study his work habits you will find that he took frequent breaks. I don’t think that anyone can find fault with the sum total of his work product.

10-29-2006, 02:14 PM	#54
BobT we are fuel Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: cape coral, florida Posts: 71	a lot easier to spot 6 employees goofing off at the water cooler than 15 surfing the web. at least at the water cooler they feel more conspicuous....and are!

10-29-2006, 02:16 PM	#55
BobT we are fuel Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: cape coral, florida Posts: 71	i employ 15 people. if i could get 6.5 hours of productive work from each of them every day i would be RICH!!!.....but.....i'm not

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