Cure found for cancer?

[glatt]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

edit - ah, well. so long Kim.

I saw it too. Kim deleted her post.

[Undertoad]

Putting a link in your first post is specifically mentioned as not permitted in the registration process. Kim included several.

[glatt]

That 'splains it. Cool.

[Happy Monkey]

One further thing about the economics of cancer cures - if there were a cheap, effective cure for cancer, there would be an eonomic boom! Just think of all the products and activities that turned out to be carcinogenic!

I'm telling you, only the extremely rich and powerful would have access to it.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

I'm telling you, only the extremely rich and powerful would have access to it.

What, you don't think a mining company would love to reduce medical and training costs by dosing their employees? Or power plants? Big Tobacco would jump at the chance to put it in cigarrettes or, if that's not possible, make it available over the counter. Aspartame manufacturers, too. There are all sorts of big businesses that would benefit from a cheap and effective cancer cure.

[Pie]

I think I may be in a unique position to comment on this thread.

My father has cancer. He was diagnosed with Chronic Lymphocytic Leukemia in July of 2001. It is an incurable disease. Some people survive for decades with it, and some die within a year or two. He has one of the more aggresive subtypes, with a median survival of five years.

In response to his diagnosis, my mother (a PhD chemist) went on a learning binge. She studied till her eyes were bleeding. Then she started posting on ACOR and talking with the experts. She soon started her own yahoo! group (clltopics). When that became too unwieldy, she and my dad started Clltopics.org, a non-profit patient information and advocacy site.

They are currently fundraising for their second clinical trial with the Mayo Clinic. Their first clinical trial is actually targeted at exactly the type of non-pharmaceutical that Annoyed is so hung up on. EGCG does show promise as an anti-cancer agent, and the folks involved are putting up their own hard-earned cash ($129,784.06 in donations, so far) to prove it in a clinical setting.

Instead of hard and fast proven data, Annoyed gives us "vitamin B17". a 5-minute search of the web turns it up at Quackwatch (emphasis is mine):

Laetrile

Laetrile, which achieved great notoriety during the 1970s and early 1980s, is the trade name for a synthetic relative of amygdalin, a chemical in the kernels of apricot pits, apple seeds, bitter almonds, and some other stone fruits and nuts. Many laetrile promoters have called it "vitamin B17" and falsely claimed that cancer is a vitamin deficiency disease that laetrile can cure. Claims for laetrile's efficacy have varied considerably [39]. First it was claimed to prevent and cure cancer. Then it was claimed not to cure, but to "control" cancer while giving patients an increased feeling of well being. More recently, laetrile has been claimed to be effective, not by itself, but as one component of "metabolic therapy" (described below).

Laetrile was first used to treat cancer patients in California in the 1950s. According to proponents, it kills tumor cells selectively while leaving normal cells alone. Although laetrile has been promoted as safe and effective, clinical evidence indicates that it is neither [40]. When subjected to enzymatic breakdown in the body, it forms glucose, benzaldehyde, and hydrogen cyanide [41]. Some cancer patients treated with laetrile have suffered nausea, vomiting, headache and dizziness, and a few have died from cyanide poisoning. Laetrile has been tested in at least 20 animal tumor models and found to have no benefit either alone or together with other substances. Several case reviews have found no benefit for the treatment of cancer in humans.

In response to political pressure, a clinical trial was begun in 1982 by the Mayo Clinic and three other U.S. cancer centers under NCI sponsorship. Laetrile and "metabolic therapy" were administered as recommended by their promoters. The patients had advanced cancer for which no proven treatment was known. Of 178 patients, not one was cured or stabilized, and none had any lessening of any cancer-related symptoms. The median survival rate was about five months from the start of therapy. In those still alive after seven months, tumor size had increased. Several patients experienced symptoms of cyanide toxicity or had blood levels of cyanide approaching the lethal range [42].

In 1975, a class action suit was filed to stop the FDA from interfering with the sale and distribution of laetrile. Early in the case, a federal district court judge in Oklahoma issued orders allowing cancer patients to import a six-month supply of laetrile for personal use if they could obtain a physician's affidavit that they were "terminal." In 1979, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that it is not possible to be certain who is terminal and that even if it were possible, both terminally ill patients and the general public deserve protection from fraudulent cures. In 1987, after further appeals were denied, the district judge (a strong proponent of laetrile) finally yielded to the higher courts and terminated the affidavit system [39]. Few sources of laetrile are now available within the United States, but it still is utilized at several Mexican clinics.

So, Annoyed, tell me again... Why should we believe you? WHERE IS YOUR SCIENTIFIC, CLINICAL PROOF?

Fuck off and die.

[Kimberley]

What?? You had to ban me from your forum and delete my message?? Shame on you!

Anyways, let me clarify some things here:

Yes it can. Does every cancer patient who takes B17 survive cancer? Does every cancer patient who doesn't take B17 die of cancer? If the answer to either of those questions is no, then the stories are worthless - there are other stories you aren't looking for that have B17-takers dying or non-B17-takers recovering. You need a scientific study to determine whether the B17 increases the chances of recovery or not.

Yes you can. Not that I think you should be able to, but you can. And even if there is a non-patentable but good source, non-patented medicine is a huge business as well.

NO, YOU CANNOT PATENT A FRUIT OR VITAMIN! And no not EVERY person who takes Vitamin B17 survives cancer. For one thing, if they have already had chemo and radiation there body has already been attacked and of course this depends on how much the cancer has spread.

How about the "alternative medicine" business? They make billions, too, and they don't even have to spend any of it on research. Just marketing.

But more directly - a study of B17 would be easy. It wouldn't require the resources of a huge pharmaceutical giant. A tenured professor at a medical school could get a grant from any number of sources and do it himself. If he finds a cure, he gets a Nobel prize, almost guaranteed. Whatever school he is affiliated with becomes the school that cured cancer.

They have done studies on Vitamin B17. Hey! It took more than 200 hundred years for people to believe that Vitamin C can get rid of Scurvy.

Alternative medicine is big business and WILL GET EVEN BIGGER! They are the people who are trying to advocate alternative methods to cancer. Hey! I have had 3 people in my family who have gone through chemo therapy so I know first hand who the hell they can do to your system! I also have another family member who more recently opted for alternative and is still alive 4 years later when she was told she would be dead within a year!!! Geez, was SHE the crazy one here!! And no, not everyone who tries alternative therapy can cure themselves from cancer just as a triple bypass surgery doesn't always cure everyone who has a heart problem!!

I think you better do your research here because it sounds as though you don't know too much about anything!

edit - ah, well. so long Kim.

Yea, so long!! What? You are going to delete this message again!! For some reason you people don't like knowing the truth.


Whatever!

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by Kimberley

NO, YOU CANNOT PATENT A FRUIT OR VITAMIN!

Tell that to Montsano. I wish you were correct. In fact, I wish you were correct about the whole thing. But wishing isn't enough.

And no not EVERY person who takes Vitamin B17 survives cancer.

Thanks. So the answer to at least one of the questions is no. Therefore, testimonials are worthless. Testimonials only refer to a single case, and there's no way to tell whether that individual would have survived without the B17. That's why you need a) a large sample size, b) a control group, c) a placebo group, and d) double-blind procedures.

They have done studies on Vitamin B17.

And the studies showed no beneficial effect. I suppose you could keep testing for 200 years, and hope the results change.

Alternative medicine is big business and WILL GET EVEN BIGGER!

No doubt. They're corporations, just as amoral as the pharmaceutical industry, and unhindered by research budgets or FDA regulation. They'll roll in dough.

And no, not everyone who tries alternative therapy can cure themselves from cancer just as a triple bypass surgery doesn't always cure everyone who has a heart problem!!

You misunderstood my point. I was saying that there will be survivors and nonsurvivors in any case, so individual stories don't give any useful information.

Just remember that the "alternative" in "alternative medicine" means "unproven."

[jinx]

Originally Posted by Pie

Instead of hard and fast proven data, Annoyed gives us "vitamin B17". a 5-minute search of the web turns it up at Quackwatch (emphasis is mine):

Stephen Barrett is an idiot who is fond of SLAPP lawsuits motivated by his own greed.

[Pie]

Originally Posted by jinx

Stephen Barrett is an idiot who is fond of SLAPP lawsuits motivated by his own greed.

I have no particular interest or support for Barrett. I quoted it as a site that had citations of relevance.

[Kimberley]

Annoyedsas: sorry to hear about your cancer. What regimens are you treating your cancer with? There is a great website called curezone.com that you may want to post messages etc. I hope you get better. I have known a lot of people who have conquered cancer from alternative methods plus a mix of both alternative and orthodox medicine (surgery mainly). From personal experience in knowing people who have used alternative methods, Vitamin B17was only one of MANY methods they used at a time. Shark Cartliage supplements, yoga and juicing and many more were used. Also, it sounds like you have a POSITIVE mind which will help you during this difficult time as well. You should go over to curezone as they share stories about literally anything medical related. I used to get migraine headaches for the past 10 years and have stopped them in their tracks by taking magnesium everyday. I have been migraine-free for almost a year now!! I don't have cancer and hopefully I will never get it but I can't imagine those who have to go through it including yourself.

[Kimberley]

About Vitamin B17:

Instead of hard and fast proven data, Annoyed gives us "vitamin B17". a 5-minute search of the web turns it up at Quackwatch (emphasis is mine):

For one thing - QUACKWATCH?? Are you serious? Who believes anything they say on their site? They are the QUACKS.

The following people have been noted in the past for being QUACKS!

Christopher Columbus was attacked for saying the earth was round.

Gelieo was in prison for teaching that the earth moved around the sun.

The Wright Brothers were rediculed & condemned for claiming that a machine could fly above the earth.

William Harvery was disgraced as a physician for believing that blood was pumped by the heart & actually moved around the body through arteries.

Another known doctor as fired from his hospital post for requesting that his maternity staff wash their hands!



So tell me WHO ARE THE QUACKS HERE? Gee, like I'm going to believe them.

Vitamin C got rid of Scurvy and Vitamin D got rid of Rickets. Need I say more.

[Undertoad]

As I explained twice to you in private mail already, and once in this thread, you cannot post a link on your first message, and the registration process that you have been through twice now, explains that quite clearly.

B17 advocacy, brought to you by those with no reading comprehension skills. It's no coincidence.

You really think it will be inexpensive?