Welfare to kids of illegals in LA County costs $276 million per year

[billybob]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

billybob and charlene are really Dave and Jeni(sp).

And BrianR misses the point on two counts......

[billybob]

Ibram....................dear sweet MaggieL decided, before I had even taken a standpoint, that my opinions were void because I'm not a legal resident of the US. For that reason alone, I mock her with her own brand of racism.
Not only that, but when a friend of mine happened to point out that this forum was not particularly open to opinion, she rather ignorantly referred to my good American friend as a 'sock puppet', thus proving charlene's point.
...it's a waste of time trying to even ascertain the facts when the board is more interested in finding reasons to discredit you before you've even lodged your position. The facts and figures are out there, very easy for either side of the debate to locate and process, but the question of why people choose their debating stances remains a mystery. The only real thing that I have gleaned from this forum is that they are overwhelmingly on one side of the issue, and deeply resent any nasty foreigner asking questions as to why.

Enjoy your closed circle, there's no benefit to me in trying to figure out why you support this legislation if I don't value the process you use to determine your opinions.

[Ibby]

So everyone is automatically on the same side if they don't agree with you? My stance on the issue is really probably closer to yours than Maggie's, but you are the one being a jerk, from my standpoint. I'm not trying to discredit you, you did that yourself. I'm just giving you a hard time on everything, because you are giving everyone else a hard time on everything. Maybe you don't realize it, maybe you don't mean to, but it is my opinion, and I will act on it.

[MaggieL]

Billy forgets that he started off with *my* opinons being void because I live in Pennsylvania, where he originally claimed than none of this really matters to us because we're all so white and far away from Mexico. I pointed out how similar NZ law (you know, the immigration law that has benefited him so much personally that his immigration has been subsidized by the NZ government) is to our own, but that's irrelevant when it invalidates his opinon, because I'm a xenophobe, and what's happening to him personally is somehow not germane. In the face of the most incredible potty-mouthed invective it is I who is rude, and I'm "deluded by stereotypes" in the eyes of a man who assumes that all females must be housewives.

It's pointless arguing with him; everything turns into a response driven by projection:

...A defense mechanism in which the individual attributes to other people impulses and traits that he himself has but cannot accept. It is especially likely to occur when the person lacks insight into his own impulses and traits...

So everybody else is a racist and a xenophobe, and once he's caught sockpuppeting he randomly accuses others of being sockpuppets...but that's not his fault, it's mine, of course; I forced him to do it.

Next we'll be told we're all projecting, I'm sure.... :-)

[wolf]

Personally, I embrace being a racist xenophobe. And I see enough illegals seeking treatment that I know why I'm not getting a raise this year despite sterling performance.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by wolf

I see enough illegals seeking treatment that I know why I'm not getting a raise this year despite sterling performance.

You mean you don't get a raise, even though business is booming? :-)

Well, if it was the *children* of illegals you were treating, that would be different, because they are citizens.

Wouldn't it? :-)

I still think that new NZ law has the right idea on that score...

Those present in New Zealand as permanent residents before 21 April 2005, or those who applied successfully for permanent residence before that date, may be able to apply for New Zealand citizenship after 3 years' "ordinary residence" (this provision expires on 1 January 2010).

Those that have been in New Zealand without a permit during their ordinary residence period do not meet the requirements because "unlawful residence" is precluded in the Citizenship Act 1977. Ordinary residence is assessed by backdating three years before an application is lodged. Time spent in New Zealand before the three year period is not relevant.

One must also intend to continue to reside in New Zealand, be of good character, have sufficient knowledge of the English language, and demonstrate an understanding of the responsibilities and privileges of being a New Zealand Citizen.

...and I think the wording of the Fourteenth Amendment would support that interpretation, too...even though that's not how it's currently applied. (We seem to have a problem with how we apply the Second Amendment too, go figure.)

Obviously an illegal alien isn't "under the jurisdiction of the US", nor are their children...at least until they're apprehended. This is yet another way to reduce the incentives to break immigration law, along with making it unprofitable to hire illegal labor. "Dive across the border and have a kid as quickly as possible; the gringos will pay for it."

[Kitsune]

Send in the troops!

[MaggieL]

To keep flies away, it's more important and easier to cover the food than to mend the holes in the screen.

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by MaggieL

To keep flies away, it's more important and easier to cover the food than to mend the holes in the screen.

Ah, yes, but a wise person does at once, what a fool does at last. Both do the same thing; only at different times.

Uh... what?

[bluecuracao]

Originally Posted by MaggieL

To keep flies away, it's more important and easier to cover the food than to mend the holes in the screen.

Comparing people to flies...well, ain't that nice?

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by bluecuracao

Comparing people to flies...well, ain't that nice?

There's nothing "nice" about the situation. If the analogy disturbs you, maybe it should; I think the most disturbing thing is how apt it is. Flies don't care that it's your kitchen and your food, all they care about is they're hungry and you can't stop them.

[busterb]

Does anyone who has posted in this BS think that what they say, think want, will have any inpact of what the powers that be sell out for? If so someone is living in a fools world!

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by busterb

Does anyone who has posted in this BS think that what they say, think want, will have any inpact of what the powers that be sell out for? If so someone is living in a fools world!

In aggregate, what the people want is already having an impact. But having elected representatives is a lot like herding cats...they don't always go the way you want.

We'll see what happens.

Originally Posted by MaggieL

To keep flies away, it's more important and easier to cover the food than to mend the holes in the screen.

Its most important of all to ask "Who benefits?" Someone is benefiting from leaving all that food out for the flies. Check your premises, Maggie. Who is leaving the food out and why?

The businessmen who hire the illegals are the ones who benefit from this entire mess. The people who work for "la migra" also benefit, although to a far lesser degree. Let's say I have a 1,000 acre grape farm or, better yet, a chain of hotels/motels that uses illegal labor at a far lesser cost than what it would be to hire bona fide US citizens.

When's the last time you heard of of a group of Hilton executives (or whatever big hotel chain) being arrested for using illegals as employees? I go into the Walmart in Montrose, Colorado. You'd think I was in Mexico City. Those folks are buying stuff to support the Chinese economy just like good American citizens do. They pay sales tax on their purchases which goes to help underpin the staggering toward collapse any second now, Montrose County, Colorado economy.

Who contributes to the war chests of congress-persons in states where their is a high number of illegals? Don't all raise your hands at once. HINT: It is the AMERICAN (ie US) businessman.

US law currently states that any child born within this country's borders is automatically a citizen. Now, you can lobby DC to change this law or else you can make the decision to turn your "flies" into "bees." Give those kids the medical care, food, and education to make them productive citizens of this country.

We are willing to spend trillions on killing people in the Far East, yet dig in our heels at making an investment of millions here at home. The US needs to let go of its xenophobic attitude toward the world. We either kill foreigners outright or exploit them as a source of cheap labor. Check your premises. Who benefits from this stance?

Over to you, Ms. Rand.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by marichiko

Its most important of all to ask "Who benefits?" Someone is benefiting from leaving all that food out for the flies. Check your premises, Maggie. Who is leaving the food out and why?
Over to you, Ms. Rand.

You're kinda late to this party. Go back and read all of this thread and the other immigration ones. I think punishing the criminals who are exploiting the illegals is more important than any futile attempt to seal the border...and I've said so several times.

That's the "cover the food"...no point in trying to deport millions of illegals who will just turn around and head back across the border. Remove their motivation for being here by making it unprofitable to exploit them; it's easier.

Also read what I've written about the 14th amendment...as far as I'm concerened, illegals aren't "under the jurisdiction of the United States" until they're apprehended.