What does being a man mean to you? - Page 4

DanaC · 11-23-2009, 04:49 AM

Well there was Christine de Pizan for a kick off, in the middle ages :P Not to mention the later Mary Wollstonecraft. Worth recalling though, that when Wollstonecraft was writing in the 18th century, she was referred to by some as 'a female politician', an 'Amazonian' and 'an Unsex'd Female'.

Somehow men managed to carve themselves the twin roles of introspection and silence, philospher and plain minded speaker, sensitive romantic and unfrilled defender.

Men can be introspective and still retain a sense of manliness which relies on a lack of the same. There is little about our sense of gender that is not problematic in some way.

glatt · 11-23-2009, 07:38 AM

The mods and the admins here pretty much want to be treated like everyone else, so they don't advertise the fact that they are mods. If you are worried about it, you should assume that everyone is a mod or that nobody is.

anonymous · 11-23-2009, 08:35 AM

To answer your question more directly, it means embracing his differences, emphasizing chivalry, courage, honor and trustworthiness.

There are few if any role models left these days and it is up to fathers to teach and inculcate these values in America's youth. The Boy Scouts try, but fail.

On the other hand, you asked what manhood means to ME.

To ME, it means a lifetime of enslavement, repression, misery, loneliness, sadness and tears. A prison from which I will in all likelihood never escape.

Manhood is as much a societal construct as it is a state of being.

Defining manhood is a difficult thing, any more than defining womanhood is. Manhood means more than the mere possession of a penis and testicles. It is a state of mind as well as being.

Ask any veteran who has lost his to a land mine if HE'S still a man or not. Cancer causes many men every year to lose their testicles. Are they any less a man than an intact one is? What about accident victims? Burn victims?

For that matter, is a woman any less a woman for undergoing a hysterectomy? Or Bilateral masectomy?

Is it the package, which can be altered? Or the state of mind, the personal identity that defines one's gender?

glatt · 11-23-2009, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starring_Emma

That sounds like something a mod or admin would say...

No. I'm not a moderator.

Welcome to the Cellar, by the way.

regular.joe · 11-23-2009, 09:08 AM

A man's true greatness lies in the consciousness of an honest purpose in life, founded on a just estimate of himself and everything else, on frequent self-examination, and a steady obedience to the rule which he knows to be right, without troubling himself, as the emperor says he should not, about what others may think or say, or whether they do or do not do that which he thinks and says and does.

-Marcus Aurelius Antoninus.

Ole Marcus said it much better then I, and he said it first.

Shawnee123 · 11-23-2009, 10:54 AM

What should being a man mean to you (one woman's perspective):

Being honest, being gentle but not a pushover, being strong but not a bully, being caring but not a pansy-ass. Oh, and honest. And, honest.

(Did I mention honesty? You know, it's hardly ever heard.)

xoxoxoBruce · 11-23-2009, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anonymous

Manhood is as much a societal construct as it is a state of being.

Because that construct is a moving target, that's the rub... balancing what's currently expected, what's politically correct, with what I feel is right.

Quote:

Is it the package, which can be altered? Or the state of mind, the personal identity that defines one's gender?

State of mind defines me, gender is only one of the things affecting that state of mind.

The package can definitely be altered, from the external events you described, to simply aging, and the contents also changes.

While my perception of right and wrong, my "core values", probably remain pretty much steady, my behavior will change. Behavior in relation to society, is more reaction, than action.

jujuwwhite · 11-24-2009, 08:59 AM

Being true to One's self whether male or female is the ultimate beginning of shaping a person into who they are.

skysidhe · 11-24-2009, 09:10 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymous

Manhood is as much a societal construct as it is a state of being.

Bruce:
Because that construct is a moving target, that's the rub... balancing what's currently expected, what's politically correct, with what I feel is right.

Quote: anonymous
Is it the package, which can be altered? Or the state of mind, the personal identity that defines one's gender?

Bruce:
State of mind defines me, gender is only one of the things affecting that state of mind.

Truth!

Cicero · 11-25-2009, 01:34 AM

I would like a description of the roles (as a man) you adopt after many things have changed through the generations.

What role do you imagine you must fill to be a man? So many things have changed since my parents generation that I am pretty confused as to what is expected as a "norm". Or have things changed so dramatically? Are they (the roles) quite the same for you as your parents? After all of my experiences I am willing to except the answer-there is no norm...but is there for you? I am not talking about the equipment, I am talking about anyone who identifies their self as a man and what role they imagine they fill based on their self-identification. Hopefully this comes close to the original question. I'm curious too...

xoxoxoBruce · 11-25-2009, 02:25 AM

I can only speak for myself, Cic, but as far as what society expects of me, the role "they" expect me to fill as a man, I don't give a rat's ass.
I am what I am, with no apology. I live as I wish, I do what I want, and try not to hurt anybody. But I also don't take any shit, which is probably the main reason I'm not married anymore.

toranokaze · 12-05-2009, 12:21 PM

Let me first speak to the nature of the debate of manhood and masculinity in the greater American culture.

This is a discussion that I have been intestinal involved in for the last 10 years. In general most of these discussions it are women talking about men with the occasional input from a man. Which is wrong, for you have one group talking about another group. It is as if you had white talking about what it means to be black or men talking about what it means to be a woman.

We need a closed debate and stand as men to define ourselves and what it that means in society.

In American society I have seen lack of value of masculine values, a lack of value of what men do, specifically fatherhood.

More on the question latter.

Perry Winkle · 12-05-2009, 12:32 PM

Running 12 miles through 4+ inches of snow in sub-zero wind chills, while the wind blows stinging snow in your face, and loving every minute of it.

xoxoxoBruce · 12-05-2009, 08:08 PM

WTF? Are you saying a woman can't do that.

Say it ain't so, Perry, say it ain't so.

Perry Winkle · 12-05-2009, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

WTF? Are you saying a woman can't do that.

Say it ain't so, Perry, say it ain't so.

Naw, that's not what I'm saying at all. Two women were right there with the rest of the guys.

Just because it's part of what being a man means to me doesn't mean it can't be part of what being a woman means to me. If you back up a step I believe such activities are part of what being a human means to me.

I don't know if that makes sense, I'm pretty sleep deprived.

Some of the best runners I know are women. In fact, the best woman runner I know beat the best male runner I know in a 50 mile race a few months ago.

11-23-2009, 08:35 AM	#48
anonymous Operations Operative Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: in hiding Posts: 578	What being a man means to me To answer your question more directly, it means embracing his differences, emphasizing chivalry, courage, honor and trustworthiness. There are few if any role models left these days and it is up to fathers to teach and inculcate these values in America's youth. The Boy Scouts try, but fail. On the other hand, you asked what manhood means to ME. To ME, it means a lifetime of enslavement, repression, misery, loneliness, sadness and tears. A prison from which I will in all likelihood never escape. Manhood is as much a societal construct as it is a state of being. Defining manhood is a difficult thing, any more than defining womanhood is. Manhood means more than the mere possession of a penis and testicles. It is a state of mind as well as being. Ask any veteran who has lost his to a land mine if HE'S still a man or not. Cancer causes many men every year to lose their testicles. Are they any less a man than an intact one is? What about accident victims? Burn victims? For that matter, is a woman any less a woman for undergoing a hysterectomy? Or Bilateral masectomy? Is it the package, which can be altered? Or the state of mind, the personal identity that defines one's gender?

11-23-2009, 09:08 AM	#50
regular.joe Старый сержант Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: NC, dreaming of large Russian women. Posts: 1,464	A man's true greatness lies in the consciousness of an honest purpose in life, founded on a just estimate of himself and everything else, on frequent self-examination, and a steady obedience to the rule which he knows to be right, without troubling himself, as the emperor says he should not, about what others may think or say, or whether they do or do not do that which he thinks and says and does. -Marcus Aurelius Antoninus. Ole Marcus said it much better then I, and he said it first. __________________ Birth, wealth, and position are valueless during wartime. Man is only judged by his character --Soldier's Testament. Death, like birth, is a secret of Nature. - Marcus Aurelius.

11-23-2009, 10:54 AM	#51
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	What should being a man mean to you (one woman's perspective): Being honest, being gentle but not a pushover, being strong but not a bully, being caring but not a pansy-ass. Oh, and honest. And, honest. (Did I mention honesty? You know, it's hardly ever heard.) __________________ A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice. --Bill Cosby

11-24-2009, 08:59 AM	#53
jujuwwhite Capnhowdy's #1 smasher Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Rentz, GA Posts: 339	Being true to One's self whether male or female is the ultimate beginning of shaping a person into who they are. __________________ I don't suffer from insanity...i enjoy every moment of it.

11-25-2009, 01:34 AM	#55
Cicero Looking forward to open mic night. Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: New Mexico Posts: 5,148	I would like a description of the roles (as a man) you adopt after many things have changed through the generations. What role do you imagine you must fill to be a man? So many things have changed since my parents generation that I am pretty confused as to what is expected as a "norm". Or have things changed so dramatically? Are they (the roles) quite the same for you as your parents? After all of my experiences I am willing to except the answer-there is no norm...but is there for you? I am not talking about the equipment, I am talking about anyone who identifies their self as a man and what role they imagine they fill based on their self-identification. Hopefully this comes close to the original question. I'm curious too... __________________ Show me a sane man, and I will cure him for you.- Carl Jung

11-23-2009, 07:38 AM	#47
glatt ™ Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 27,717	The mods and the admins here pretty much want to be treated like everyone else, so they don't advertise the fact that they are mods. If you are worried about it, you should assume that everyone is a mod or that nobody is.

11-24-2009, 09:10 AM	#54
skysidhe ~~Life is either a daring adventure or nothing.~~ Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 6,828	Quote: Originally Posted by anonymous Manhood is as much a societal construct as it is a state of being. Bruce: Because that construct is a moving target, that's the rub... balancing what's currently expected, what's politically correct, with what I feel is right. Quote: anonymous Is it the package, which can be altered? Or the state of mind, the personal identity that defines one's gender? Bruce: State of mind defines me, gender is only one of the things affecting that state of mind. Truth!

11-25-2009, 02:25 AM	#56
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	I can only speak for myself, Cic, but as far as what society expects of me, the role "they" expect me to fill as a man, I don't give a rat's ass. I am what I am, with no apology. I live as I wish, I do what I want, and try not to hurt anybody. But I also don't take any shit, which is probably the main reason I'm not married anymore. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

12-05-2009, 12:21 PM	#57
toranokaze I'm still a jerk Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Little Mexico Posts: 1,817	Let me first speak to the nature of the debate of manhood and masculinity in the greater American culture. This is a discussion that I have been intestinal involved in for the last 10 years. In general most of these discussions it are women talking about men with the occasional input from a man. Which is wrong, for you have one group talking about another group. It is as if you had white talking about what it means to be black or men talking about what it means to be a woman. We need a closed debate and stand as men to define ourselves and what it that means in society. In American society I have seen lack of value of masculine values, a lack of value of what men do, specifically fatherhood. More on the question latter. __________________ "Without deviation from the norm progress is not possible." - Frank Zappa It is the ignorance of ignorance that lead to the death of knowledge The Virgin Mary does not weep for her son, for he is in paradise. She weeps for the world , for we are in suffering.

12-05-2009, 12:32 PM	#58
Perry Winkle Esnohplad Semaj Ton Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: A little south of sanity Posts: 2,259	Running 12 miles through 4+ inches of snow in sub-zero wind chills, while the wind blows stinging snow in your face, and loving every minute of it.

12-05-2009, 08:08 PM	#59
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	WTF? Are you saying a woman can't do that. Say it ain't so, Perry, say it ain't so. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

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