Who's More British...

[dar512]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

We are a nation of people of all colours, creeds, religions. We are truly multicultural and that's as it should be. Australians are citizens of the world and we are all equal.

There was an NPR or maybe BBC radio show recently about an incident with an aboriginal in Australia. I got the impression from the show that Australian aboriginals were discriminated against.

[limey]

Originally Posted by Brianna

but...but...limey!!! I thought you were a Scot!

If you say you're British, didn't William Wallace do all that for nothing?

I live in Scotland but I am English ... in my view "British" encompasses both English and Scottish rather in the way that "American" must encompass both Texan and Californian ... (as a cultural concept, rather than political).
HTH

[DanaC]

Politicians only represent the people when its election time.

As a politician I have people say that to me so often. Only yesterday morning I visted a constituent (who'd got in touch because come election time lots of people contact their councillors) to talk about an issue that's been ongoing for a number of years. I and my ward colleagues have spent the last three months working on this issue, sending letters and emails and making phonecalls to the housing association that's at the centre of the problem.

She actually said to me, "I find it interesting that you've only surfaced now there's an election."

Three months of fucking work, at the urging of a couple of the residents and because I haven't vistited this particular resident and kept her informed of everything we were doing (beyond three 'Dear Resident' update letters, hand delivered by yours fucking truly to 100 fucking houses on three separate sunday mornings).

But hey, that's me just surface at election time.

One thing that's really surprised me about being involved in politics, is how much unseen and unrecognised work politicians generally do. That goes for the local and the national politicians I've met. The public have very low confidence and assume everyone's on the make and doing bugger all, especially with MPs. The MPs I know routinely work 70 and 80 hour weeks when parliament is in session.

The people of my borough pay their councillors less than 10k a year before tax. I know very few councillors who put in less than a 25 hour week. Most of them are doing that around their full time jobs.

When it's election time you try and get to speak to/ write to as many constituents as you can. That takes huge amounts of time and energy. For that 4 week period the amount of other stuff (complex ward work, council meetings, admin) that gets done shrinks. You cannot keep up that level of activity (writing to or delivering leaflets to or knocking on doors of 8000+ people) all year round.

[Aliantha]

Originally Posted by dar512

There was an NPR or maybe BBC radio show recently about an incident with an aboriginal in Australia. I got the impression from the show that Australian aboriginals were discriminated against.

They were, and still are in some ways. I've not denied that. The issue is not a black and white one though (pardon the pun), so it's possible that more research into the situation might benefit if you're interested.

My point is that I'm hopeful of better things in the future for all Australians. I understand that you're calling me a liar for suggesting all Australians are equal, but in reality we are. The problem is, the sins of the past are hard to shake off and there are a lot of things which can be done better. Any Australian citizen is entitled to the same benefits if they need them.

It could also be argued that Aboriginal people have an advantage over some other non indigenous Australians because they are entitled to 'extra' financial assistance for things like apprenticeships, training and even home loans believe it or not. I don't see it that way, but some people do.

[Aliantha]

Originally Posted by DucksNuts

Politicians only represent the people when its election time.

I disagree. Politicians make promises going into elections and if successful these promises then become mandates.

John Howard promised to keep interest rates low. He failed. That's one of the main reasons he wasn't re-elected in my opinion. I don't really think the war in Iraq etc were big issues for people here. Another reason was because he increased taxes for middle and low income earners while decreasing them for higher income earners. When the majority of your constituents are low to middle income earners, that's a fatal mistake.

Kevin Rudd promised to ratify Kyoto which he did. He also promised an apology on behalf of the Austalian government, which he did at the very first opportunity. So far, he and his government have kept their word and I'm happy with that. Time will tell if things will continue in the same manner or not, but as I've said, I'm hopeful that they will.

To me, believing that politicians only care about themselves means there's no point in even caring about the political process which governs our lives. It means that being interested in what happens to people is pointless. It means that there's no hope of change. I can't believe that. If I did, what would be the point of living? If we didn't have a democratic process, I could understand your point more, but then we wouldn't be having this conversation anyway.

[Sundae]

Originally Posted by DanaC

One thing that's really surprised me about being involved in politics, is how much unseen and unrecognised work politicians generally do. That goes for the local and the national politicians I've met. The public have very low confidence and assume everyone's on the make and doing bugger all, especially with MPs. The MPs I know routinely work 70 and 80 hour weeks when parliament is in session.

Don't take it too much to heart Dana. It's been the same in every job I've been in. The warehouse staff think the office staff sit and file their nails all day, the people in retail think head office are always at lunch, Managers think 70 letter mailouts send themselves (at 5 minutes to go on a Firday afternoon). Common misconceptions also include - stacking shelves in a supermarket is a low pressure job and staff have time to chat to you, all staff in charity shops are paid and very little of what you pay actually goes to charity, teachers have long holidays and do nothing during this time.

Keep your chin up, at least you're with the good guys, even if the general public forget that sometimes.

Originally Posted by Aliantha

My point is that I'm hopeful of better things in the future for all Australians. I understand that you're calling me a liar for suggesting all Australians are equal, but in reality we are.

Ali I wonder if Dar realises how multi-cultural Australia is? I'm sure it's not a case of thinking you are a liar, but it's easy for outsiders to think of Aus as ex-pat Brits (knotted hankies, sunburns and all) and Aborginals! Having family in Australia, and family who have been there recently to visit, I totally back the multi-cultural aspect of Australian life. I don't think my parents ate the same cuisine two nights running when they were there, and their photos show the racial mix in Syndey for example.

All countries carry some shame from treatment of other people/ countries/ races whether new or old world. But I'd like to think it wasn't anyone here on the Cellar, any more that I'd expect a German poster to apologise for the two World Wars. So it's always going to be a case of not - what we did - but - what can we do?

Good on ya cobber, keep up the good work.

[Aliantha]

it's easy for outsiders to think of Aus as ex-pat Brits (knotted hankies, sunburns and all) and Aborginals!

I reckon you're right with this here mate. I guess that's what I've been trying to demonstrate. If you went back as little as two generations you'd have been pretty close, but things have really changed here over the last 30 years or so, and I suppose it takes the rest of the world a while to understand that. For example, there's a study somewhere which I can't find, but it gives you a picture of what an average Sydney resident looked like 20 years ago, and then it gives you a picture of what an average Sydney resident will look like in 20 years time. The former is of white anglo saxon complexion. The latter is of european/asian complexion. Maybe it's accurate and maybe it's not. I think it's probably pretty spot on though. Anyway, it doesn't matter. If people care they'll go ahead and check it out for themselves.

[skysidhe]

Originally Posted by Brianna

Wow.

This was just for funsies.



sighs.

Sing out loud. To arms! To arms! The British are coming! The British are coming! You'll feel so silly you'll smile. There's your funsies. :P

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Probably the biggest difference stems from the attitude and action of the Brits, when the US and Australia were founded.

YES THAT

Isn't it ironic that colonists had to fight off the brits and the French to WIN independence and are viewed 'violent' by the aussies yet the aussies of criminal decent spurned by their motherland waited peacefuly 200 years for independence. ha

[DucksNuts]

Another reason was because he increased taxes for middle and low income earners while decreasing them for higher income earners.

Bullshit. I know for a fact (as I do payroll), the last two financial years have seen low and middle income earners receive tax cuts.

re the interest rates....really a mute point. Our interest rates arent decided by John Howard, but are a reflection on what is happening in the wider world.

[Aliantha]

The libs were in power for over 10 years. Historically, higher income earners had more tax windfalls than lower under the Howard regimen.

The point is not moot with regard to interest rates. If Australian interest rate figures are a reflection of what's going on in the rest of the world, why is it that ours have been steadily climbing while those in the rest of the western world have been dropping? I don't buy that argument.

[lookout123]

could it possible be to hold off inflation? interest rates don't rise to fuck the middle class ali, they rise to cause short term pain in the hope of preventing long term assdamage to everyone living in your society. the reason that your rates don't move in the same direction at the same time is because different economies are in different parts of the cycle.

[Aliantha]

They've raised interest rates to lower inflation. That's correct. Yes everything is cyclic, but if the Howard government hadn't pressured the reserve bank to keep interest rates low for so long, rather than allowing normal fluctuations, Australians might not be paying close to 10% interest on their mortgages now. Obviously there's a lot more involved than that, but the big one is consumer spending. When interest rates are low, the economy speeds up and people feel safe spending more on credit. I'm sure you know all this considering your line of work, so I don't need to go into it further.

My point wasn't so much that the previous government was right or wrong in particular, even though I disagreed with their policies in general. It was more that the rising interest rates cost them the election. Rightly or wrongly, people react to their own hip pocket, and these rate rises have affected everyone. Who should they blame? The people they percieve to be the reason for the pain. There aren't that many people who care to take into account the normal cycle of things or consider the reasons. Most people only consider how it affects them.

[DucksNuts]

John Howard promised to keep interest rates low. He failed.

Originally Posted by Aliantha

They've raised interest rates to lower inflation. That's correct. Yes everything is cyclic, but if the Howard government hadn't pressured the reserve bank to keep interest rates low for so long, rather than allowing normal fluctuations, Australians might not be paying close to 10% interest on their mortgages now. Obviously there's a lot more involved than that, but the big one is consumer spending. When interest rates are low, the economy speeds up and people feel safe spending more on credit. I'm sure you know all this considering your line of work, so I don't need to go into it further.

My point wasn't so much that the previous government was right or wrong in particular, even though I disagreed with their policies in general. It was more that the rising interest rates cost them the election. Rightly or wrongly, people react to their own hip pocket, and these rate rises have affected everyone. Who should they blame? The people they percieve to be the reason for the pain. There aren't that many people who care to take into account the normal cycle of things or consider the reasons. Most people only consider how it affects them.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Brianna's a trouble maker. :p

[Trilby]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Brianna's a trouble maker. :p

Yeah, seems so.

I was just having a lark with this but NNNNNNNNNnooooooooooooooooooooo!


btw, what's the definition of curmudgeon?