Saddam captured

[elSicomoro]

Neither does the former Yugoslavia, but we eventually went there.

[quzah]

Originally posted by sycamore
I wouldn't consider Quzah's comments as outright hate, here or overall on the Cellar. I just think he's a bit more pessimistic and vocal than most of us on the subject.

But hell, let's ask him.

Quzah, overall, how do you feel about the United States?

Well politics aside, it's not a bad place to live. The health care system...oh wait, we don't have one. It's mainly the all the two-faced politics I can't stand. How we get all holier-than-thou and say we're "liberating" countries when it's all bullshit. We care about democracy except when we don't like elected leader. (Chile anyone?) It's that America I don't like.

People wonder why the rest of the world doesn't like America, it's not hard to figure out. We doll out punnishment on whoever we please and expect everyone to say, "Thank you sir, I"ll have another."

Politics aside, I have a pretty good life. If you don't count the sending of my job to India...

Quzah.

[Undertoad]

We could put it another way Syc. From N.Z.Bear:

During the buildup to the war, and since, many who opposed the war declared it an "illegal" action and a violation of international law.

Now that he has been found to be alive, I'd ask this to those who considered this an illegitimate war: will you now stand up and demand that Hussein be placed back in power? He was, after all, the "legal" ruler of Iraq.

[quzah]

Osama who?

Quzah.

[elSicomoro]

I don't think the war was necessarily illegal. The wording of the various UN resolutions gives the US enough justification, IMO.

So, no, I don't think Hussein should be returned to power.

[Undertoad]

No health care system in America?! This is the only country that is truly capable of separating twins that are conjoined at the head! Bring your conjoined twins right here!

[xoxoxoBruce]

If Howard Dean had his way, Saddam Hussein would be power today, not in prison.

And this would affect me, how?

[Undertoad]

It would increase the probability of a suitcase nuke being detonated in a major city near you, and at least markedly slow down any transformation of the Arab world into something half-decent.

Especially if THIS turns out to have legs:

Terrorist behind September 11 strike was trained by Saddam

Iraq's coalition government claims that it has uncovered documentary proof that Mohammed Atta, the al-Qaeda mastermind of the September 11 attacks against the US, was trained in Baghdad by Abu Nidal, the notorious Palestinian terrorist.

Details of Atta's visit to the Iraqi capital in the summer of 2001, just weeks before he launched the most devastating terrorist attack in US history, are contained in a top secret memo written to Saddam Hussein, the then Iraqi president, by Tahir Jalil Habbush al-Tikriti, the former head of the Iraqi Intelligence Service.

The handwritten memo, a copy of which has been obtained exclusively by the Telegraph, is dated July 1, 2001 and provides a short resume of a three-day "work programme" Atta had undertaken at Abu Nidal's base in Baghdad.

In the memo, Habbush reports that Atta "displayed extraordinary effort" and demonstrated his ability to lead the team that would be "responsible for attacking the targets that we have agreed to destroy".

The second part of the memo, which is headed "Niger Shipment", contains a report about an unspecified shipment - believed to be uranium - that it says has been transported to Iraq via Libya and Syria.

...but it's probably just a fake. I mean, handwritten? Come on. And Niger? Too much a coincidence, too convenient...

We'll see more, I guess, if Hussein opens up a bit before his trial.

[xoxoxoBruce]

So will they take him to Cuba and "debrief" him?

[Undertoad]

No, worse - they'll turn him over to the Iraqis.

[SteveDallas]

All I could think after I heard this on KYW at 7AM and I was glancing at the Inquirer and the NY Times before I went out was, "damn I bet newspapers hate it when stuff like this happens overnight!"

Originally posted by sycamore

Sycamore's idea that most people will laugh off: An international court under US and UN authority. Cruel tyrant he may have been, he still deserves a fair trial, and I really don't see that happening in Iraq. Maybe I'm not giving Iraqis enough credit to be impartial, but I dunno...

Fuck what Saddam deserves. Everybody else deserves a public accounting for what he's done over the years. For the sake of history, and for the sake of everybody who died under his regime, and for the sake of all the blood and cash that was spilled to bring him in. While a quick bullet through the head would have a certain visceral appeal (says the capital punishment opponent), I don't think it's the right way to go.

[russotto]

On Saddam's trial:

Should probably be held in neutral territory. In Iraq, it'll draw partisans and terrorists like flies and any tribunal will draw hard-to-dismiss accusations of being controlled by the US. In the US, just as bad. Hold it in Europe (outside the UK and Spain) and the accusations will be a lot easier to dismiss.

Hmm...how about Nuremberg?


On the US health care system: So what's the waiting period for non-life-critical surgery in those socialized systems? Several years?

[quzah]

Originally posted by Undertoad
No health care system in America?! This is the only country that is truly capable of separating twins that are conjoined at the head! Bring your conjoined twins right here!

Sure there's healthcare. If you can afford it.

Quzah.

[elSicomoro]

Steve, to deny Saddam Hussein a fair trial is a slap in the face to human rights in general, IMO. I think he deserves the chance to face his accusers, no matter how evil he is.

[elSicomoro]

Originally posted by russotto
On the US health care system: So what's the waiting period for non-life-critical surgery in those socialized systems? Several years?

In Canada, it seems to depend on what type of surgery you need. I've seen 6 months for a hernia, over a year for a knee or hip replacement.