Morality

[tw]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Gotta love these characters -the ideal lurker.

[Undertoad]

Oh, you said the Administration and it was actually the CIA. But wait, wasn't it the Dep't of Energy intelligence that disagreed on the dreaded aluminum tubes? Aren't they a cabinet-level part of the Administration too? Did somebody forget to drop money on them or something?

[tw]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Oh, you said the Administration and it was actually the CIA. But wait, wasn't it the Dep't of Energy intelligence that disagreed on the dreaded aluminum tubes? Aren't they a cabinet-level part of the Administration too? Did somebody forget to drop money on them or something?

UT - we all get old. Find your glasses.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by richlevy

For a very twisted view of an ugly current reality, it was pretty funny. Pace very quietly and gently corrected Rumsfeld, as if Rumsfeld was a little slow. For a moment it looked like a scene from "Of Mice and Men".

There's always a little something slightly more depressing than the last...

[Undertoad]

Originally Posted by Undertoad, a month ago in this thread

The exit strategy, stated hundreds of times but ignored here, is "as the Iraqis stand up we will stand down." The Iraqi forces have been improving but reporting on this matter is weak and mistakenly claims they are not. There is buzz that the stand-down will start in January, following the next election. You can tell it's imminent by how the politicians are now fighting to be the ones who thought of the idea. The Ds are demanding it so that when it happens they can say they thought of it, and won their point. The Rs will do it because the public wants it and will spin it as victory. The truth will not be evident for years.

See, sometimes I get it right:

Rumsfeld Announces Reduction in Iraq Troop Level

The reduction is possible because of the growing strength and capabilities of the Iraqi security forces, the secretary said. In the coming months, he added, more and more Iraqi army and police units will take over battlespace from coalition forces. Iraqi brigades and divisions are standing up, Rumsfeld said, and American trainers will continue to work with Iraqi units.

[xoxoxoBruce]

See, sometimes I get it right

Which is pretty good considering the surprises the administration has thrown at us.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

See, sometimes I get it right

Ambassador Zalmay Khalizad and Gen George Casey are rumored to have been calling for an exit strategy from Iraq that may even call for a fixed withdrawal date. Obviously, putting a date on that withdrawal would completely undermine Iraq's growing insurgency. But George Jr has no interest in that solution. Options were posted previously. Either 500,000 troops for one year to end the insurgency, or a complete withdrawal which would undermine the insurgency. Leaving too few troops or taking out another 7000 is only a losing strategy.

However it is not about winning in Iraq. It is all about the popularity of George Jr. Iraq has always been secondary to George Jr who is more concerned with his legacy - ie. his Kennedy like 'Mission to Mars' and a place alongside Reagan.

UT would have you believe 7000 troops out of Iraq is some kind of winning solution. How easy he is deceived by propaganda. Leaving 100,000+ American troops only causes the insurgency (once called Al Qaeda by a lying president for self serving political reasons) causes this insurgency to grow exponentially. Too few troops only makes Iraq less stable; increases a probability of civil war.

Senators Biden and Graham, while in Iraq, suggested a solution that is thought to be what Casey and Khalizad, et al have been advocating. However it requires George Jr to grasp reality (instead of a political agenda), show some intelligence, and have some balls. George Jr has demonstrated none - even hiding about the country making no decisions on 11 September 2001. Instead complementing a totally incompetent Brownie.

The US without any significant military, instead and in only 4 years, trained, deployed on most every continent, and then won multiple campaigns all over the world. It was called World War II. Iraq cannot form and domestically deploy more than one battalion in 3 years? This is the George Jr plan. If Iraqis are going to make it, then *they* must do the work - as Biden and Graham suggest. After three years, if Iraqis cannot run their own country, then it will never happen. America should announce a complete withdrawal by July 2006. This is rumored to be what intelligent Americans (with 'dirt under their fingernails') have been recommending. This would undermine the Iraqi insurgency. This is too complicated for George Jr who will need Iraqi bases for an invasion of Iran.

Rumors say Khalizad and Casey have long been suggesting a strategic objective that provides an exit strategy. George Jr has no exit strategy - still has none. Nor, say some, does he want one. Meanwhlle, UT would have you believe a few thousand troop removal means the mental midget president was right. Instead it only demonstrates how desperately UT wants to believe George Jr propaganda.

What Khalizad and Casey are rumored to be suggesting is not yet what George Jr wants. More Americans calling this president a liar would get the troops what they need – as strategic objective and an exit strategy. George Jr is only interested in his popularity which is why the only two viable options (500,000 troops deployed, or a complete withdrawal) are too complicated for George Jr to comprehend.

Meanwhile, even the National Review called for Rumsfeld's resignation due to incompetence. Insiders have suggested Rumsfeld's replacement: Sen Lieberman (D-CT).

Well, George Jr is so pig headed against change (You're doing a good job Brownie?). Rumsfeld would have to resign. George Jr needs a major senior level shakeup. But it will not happen until Americans demand it by calling the president what even The Economist did - incompetent.

It would be a terrible loss to depose of a man who could do much useful work elsewhere. As poor as he has been as Sec of Defense, George Jr should transfer Rumsfeld - not lose him. The question remains where will Rumsfeld be transferred? Where would Rumsfeld do better?

UT did not get it right. The only reason that Casey and Khalizad are even being heard: superior Americans called George Jr things such as liar, mental midget, incompetent, uninformed, naive, and self serving. Good Americans booed the president loudly a few weeks ago in Philadelphia. George Jr is only announcing insignificant troop reductions because George Jr's is worried about his popularity. Until even UT admits George Jr is a mental midget, then George Jr would not listen to what is rumored to be a Casey and Khalizad exit strategy.

The strategy that would get America out of Iraq, stop making America a terrorist target, and completely undermine the Iraqi insurgency (that is not Al Qaeda) would be an American withdrawal announced and completed by July 2006. It is one of only two viable strategies.

Too many Americans still so hate America as to not boo this president – force this president to select a viable Iraq strategy. You get this president to think when you grab him by his balls - also known as his popularity. That is where Goerge Jr does his thinking. George Jr's Iraqi speeches are only about fixing George Jr's popularity. Grab him by what does his thinking - his popularity - and maybe then he will listen to Casey and Khalizad.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

44lb for a million bucks. Would that be singles, double sawbucks, or Benjamins? Tw, you're still a crank, and no, you're not remotely fair to Republicans. You need either a life or a woman, unless your taste in partners runs more to mike18.com, in which case you need one of those, only more grown up.

You and yours aren't recognizably patriots, either. That dog not only won't hunt -- it's in the advanced stages of decay.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by tw

snip~~ Obviously, putting a date on that withdrawal would completely undermine Iraq's growing insurgency. ~~snip~~
America should announce a complete withdrawal by July 2006. This is rumored to be what intelligent Americans (with 'dirt under their fingernails') have been recommending. This would undermine the Iraqi insurgency. ~~snip~~
The strategy that would get America out of Iraq, stop making America a terrorist target, and completely undermine the Iraqi insurgency (that is not Al Qaeda) would be an American withdrawal announced and completed by July 2006. ~~snip~~

How do we know that won't make the Iraquis think the Insurgency is winning and will be the power in contol, therefore the side to join, before the pullout?

[tw]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

How do we know that won't make the Iraquis think the Insurgency is winning and will be the power in contol, therefore the side to join, before the pullout?

The insurgency is fueled only by one thing - American occupation. Conditions being so unstable that Iraq must even import oil. Conditions that will only worsen. This American occupation has made even more central Iraqi cities unsafe for Americans every year. It will only worsen as history demonstrated - be it Vietnam, Lebanon, or Somalia. Even noted by a BBC reporter who could not give his 'year end' summary report from an Iraqi city he could visit one year previous.

Once Americans leave, a serious question is whether Iraqis unite to build a country and government, or will infight. Civil War remains a possibility. And yet honest politicians from Powell, Scowcroft, McCain, Biden, and Graham suggest Iraq must undertake that risk sooner or later. They disagree on when. But that risk must occur before the insurgency gets too strong. Like Somalia, Haiti, Rwanda, or the Balkans, outsiders cannot create a solution. Iraq must create a solution. They must risk to earn a government or suffer consequences. Three years and they cannot field enough army or police? Time to sink or swim.

Unfortunately, all this is moot. America is rumored to be doing what was easily predicted by an agenda from Project For A New American Century. Rumors continue of somewhere between 14 and 20+ permanent American bases in Iraq. Clearly George Jr is doing nothing to dispel this - especially since Iran is next on the 'axis of evil' list; an attack that is justified by a George Jr policy of pre-emption. What we should do will not happen because of an extremist Republican agenda to fix the world - whether they want it or not.

Do we stay many more years? If we are needed for many years, then now is the time to make that decision and deploy 500,000 troops - to end the insurgency. Unfortunately we are doing what America also did in Vietnam. Philosophies of William Westmoreland are alive and well among extremists in the Republican Party. Somehow we were going to pervail in Vietnam even as the insurgency only grew. Somehow, just like in Vietnam, people insist this time it is different.

America cannot enforce upon a people what they can only do themselves. And yet George Jr insists we must prevail. Don't forget all those elections that occured in S Vietnam to prove back then we were winning the war.

[richlevy]

From here.

(CNN) -- Television evangelist Pat Robertson suggested Thursday that Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's stroke was divine retribution for the Israeli withdrawal from Gaza, which Robertson opposed. "He was dividing God's land, and I would say, 'Woe unto any prime minister of Israel who takes a similar course to appease the [European Union], the United Nations or the United States of America,'" Robertson told viewers of his long-running television show, "The 700 Club."


"God says, 'This land belongs to me, and you'd better leave it alone,'" he said.

How's that for affecting US interests? A prominent US citizen is saying that if you listen to the United States, G-d will smite you.

Robertson said Thursday that Sharon was "a very likable person, and I am sad to see him in this condition."

He linked Sharon's health problems to the 1995 assassination of Israeli leader Yitzhak Rabin, who signed the Oslo peace accords that granted limited self-rule to Palestinians.

"It was a terrible thing that happened, but nevertheless, now he's dead," Robertson said.

It's not scary that there is a crazy nut like this running around, what's scary is the million people who he claims as listeners nodding their heads to this stuff.

[mrnoodle]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

unless your taste in partners runs more to mike18.com

Obviously, I had to go check out that link. How is that place possibly legal?

For those of you who don't want to visit, it's twink pr0n -- baaaaarely 18 (if that) boys. I can't wait for the cops to show up. They'll have such a good time going through my internet cache. From goatse to Jessica Alba beach shots to scat to twinks. And all from discussion board threads. They'll hardly be able to identify just what kind of pervert I am....

[richlevy]

Originally Posted by mrnoodle

Obviously, I had to go check out that link. How is that place possibly legal?

For those of you who don't want to visit, it's twink pr0n -- baaaaarely 18 (if that) boys. I can't wait for the cops to show up. They'll have such a good time going through my internet cache. From goatse to Jessica Alba beach shots to scat to twinks. And all from discussion board threads. They'll hardly be able to identify just what kind of pervert I am....

This should teach you that where UG leads, only idiots follow. If these are the kind of bookmarks he has on his computer, what's on his speedial?

Thanks for the heads up, Noodle! I've got enough problems with homeland security as it is. Do you suppose UG found this place by doing a Google on "porn" and was led here by the "This is not porn" thread? It would explain much!

[BigV]

Originally Posted by dar512 in a different thread

"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately
explained by stupidity" - Hanlon's Razor

I think it's equal parts malice and stupidity. "Yeah, well, you're gay." Neener-neerner. Just another insult.

Belongs really in the Quote of the Day thread, but I collected this bit of wisdom many years ago, and have since lost the proper attribution. It applies here.

"I've been called worse by better."

And then I continue unfazed. Also, "Consider the source" -- my Dad. Together they settle the issue for me.