Conundrum - Page 4

Aliantha · 11-26-2007, 07:06 PM

now you're just trying to make me laugh again zippy! (it's working btw)

BigV · 11-27-2007, 10:04 AM

What is the penalty for putting them back in the river? Perhaps that is an acceptable cost of doing the research, the fine, the .... whatever. Include it as part of the whole bill.

Aliantha · 11-27-2007, 06:38 PM

You just can't put them back in the river. That's not an option, especially to an environmental management student. Aside from the fine etc, it's morally wrong.

classicman · 11-28-2007, 11:48 AM

A Fish store may take them, or she could send them to be fed to animals at a shelter, or like I said before -
Sell them on E-bay.

ZenGum · 11-28-2007, 11:52 AM

Bury them in a long underground passageway. You know, a carpal tunnel.

BigV · 11-28-2007, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aliantha

You just can't put them back in the river. That's not an option, especially to an environmental management student. Aside from the fine etc, it's morally wrong.

Morally wrong? To put fish back in the river? By who's standards? Not the fish's, I'm guessing.

You have a problem here, Ali, certainly. It appears the problem is choosing which unavoidable unacceptable conclusion to aim for. Do the research, get the fish, hold the fish indefinitely. Can't kill them. Can't return them. Which set of rules must be broken? IF. If the student persists in following this line of study. Given the parameters you describe, why is this even a question? It appears that this line of study is unacceptable. I reckon you're (the student, actually) only considering it (this course of study) since there's some remnant of a sensibility that the two plain options (killing them or returning them) used to be acceptable. Now they're not. So no study. Easy.

I'm not being glib. If the one part of the study involved some other more readily identifiably *unacceptable* part, there would be no question--no study. This is not an indictment of the student's judgment. I applaud their desire to learn and their desire to obey the rules. But the rules have changed to preclude this avenue.

It seems the answer is do not do this at all.

Sundae · 11-28-2007, 03:59 PM

Why is releasing them morally wrong though?
She isn't breeding them, she isn't increasing the number. Her actions are effectively neutral and she is able to pursue research that in future may prevent this problem long term.

Short term pain, long term gain.

BigV · 11-28-2007, 04:18 PM

If you bend down to pick up a piece of paper on the path in the park because you thought it was a dollar, and find it is trash instead, what do you do?

Do you pocket the paper until you're walking past the next trash can? Do you throw it back on the ground? Where is the moral path here?

Sundae · 11-28-2007, 04:25 PM

Argh - sadly I am so anti litter I wouldn't drop it again. If I go to sit down at a station and there is something on the seat I bin it, rather than just move it along to the next seat. Same with on the bus - if a can or bottle is rolling round (and they make a right racket if they find the stairs) I take it with me.

Good point though.

Aliantha · 11-28-2007, 05:27 PM

BigV: It is morally wrong for her to release them because she's an environmental management student. Aside from that it's illegal.

The reason she wants to do the research is because it's a valid topic and it's important research.

I posed the question because there will be a way around it and I wanted to gather information to help her.

If people didn't do research, we'd still be sitting in caves eating berries and raw meat. This research is vital for anyone who relies on fresh water river systems in Australia, even more so now that we're in a severe drought and knowing that the wider and shallower a river gets, the faster it will evaporate.

Not doing the study is not a great suggestion, and she's already decided to go ahead with it, so that's the reason for asking for ideas.

Thankfully, there have been a couple of good ones which definitely look like they'll have some merit.

SG: It is inevitable that they'll probably breed during the course of the study. When you lock them up in a tank, fish get pretty horny you know.

11-28-2007, 06:05 PM

I think giving them to Fish and Game (or your equivalent) is the best idea... as she does not have to worry about what happens to them and they will get destroyed.

Aliantha · 11-28-2007, 06:07 PM

Yeah...that is a front runner along with the 'donating them to science' for disection (within the university).

classicman · 11-28-2007, 08:10 PM

So I can't buy one on e-bay

Aliantha · 11-28-2007, 08:16 PM

lol...nope, but you can go pull one out of a creek if you like.

classicman · 11-28-2007, 08:17 PM

long walk/ride/flight to there from here. I'm like 3/4 of the way around the world.

11-26-2007, 07:06 PM	#46
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	now you're just trying to make me laugh again zippy! (it's working btw) __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

11-27-2007, 10:04 AM	#47
BigV Goon Squad Leader Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 27,063	What is the penalty for putting them back in the river? Perhaps that is an acceptable cost of doing the research, the fine, the .... whatever. Include it as part of the whole bill. __________________ Be Just and Fear Not.

11-27-2007, 06:38 PM	#48
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	You just can't put them back in the river. That's not an option, especially to an environmental management student. Aside from the fine etc, it's morally wrong. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

11-28-2007, 11:52 AM	#50
ZenGum Doctor Wtf Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Badelaide, Baustralia Posts: 12,861	Bury them in a long underground passageway. You know, a carpal tunnel. __________________ Shut up and hug. MoreThanPretty, Nov 5, 2008. Just because I'm nominally polite, does not make me a pussy. Sundae Girl.

11-28-2007, 03:59 PM	#52
Sundae polaroid of perfection Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 24,185	Why is releasing them morally wrong though? She isn't breeding them, she isn't increasing the number. Her actions are effectively neutral and she is able to pursue research that in future may prevent this problem long term. Short term pain, long term gain. __________________ Life's hard you know, so strike a pose on a Cadillac

11-28-2007, 11:48 AM	#49
classicman barely disguised asshole, keeper of all that is holy. Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 23,401	A Fish store may take them, or she could send them to be fed to animals at a shelter, or like I said before - Sell them on E-bay.

11-28-2007, 04:18 PM	#53
BigV Goon Squad Leader Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 27,063	If you bend down to pick up a piece of paper on the path in the park because you thought it was a dollar, and find it is trash instead, what do you do? Do you pocket the paper until you're walking past the next trash can? Do you throw it back on the ground? Where is the moral path here? __________________ Be Just and Fear Not.

11-28-2007, 04:25 PM	#54
Sundae polaroid of perfection Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 24,185	Argh - sadly I am so anti litter I wouldn't drop it again. If I go to sit down at a station and there is something on the seat I bin it, rather than just move it along to the next seat. Same with on the bus - if a can or bottle is rolling round (and they make a right racket if they find the stairs) I take it with me. Good point though. __________________ Life's hard you know, so strike a pose on a Cadillac

11-28-2007, 05:27 PM	#55
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	BigV: It is morally wrong for her to release them because she's an environmental management student. Aside from that it's illegal. The reason she wants to do the research is because it's a valid topic and it's important research. I posed the question because there will be a way around it and I wanted to gather information to help her. If people didn't do research, we'd still be sitting in caves eating berries and raw meat. This research is vital for anyone who relies on fresh water river systems in Australia, even more so now that we're in a severe drought and knowing that the wider and shallower a river gets, the faster it will evaporate. Not doing the study is not a great suggestion, and she's already decided to go ahead with it, so that's the reason for asking for ideas. Thankfully, there have been a couple of good ones which definitely look like they'll have some merit. SG: It is inevitable that they'll probably breed during the course of the study. When you lock them up in a tank, fish get pretty horny you know. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

11-28-2007, 06:05 PM	#56
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	I think giving them to Fish and Game (or your equivalent) is the best idea... as she does not have to worry about what happens to them and they will get destroyed.

11-28-2007, 06:07 PM	#57
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	Yeah...that is a front runner along with the 'donating them to science' for disection (within the university). __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

11-28-2007, 08:10 PM	#58
classicman barely disguised asshole, keeper of all that is holy. Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 23,401	So I can't buy one on e-bay

11-28-2007, 08:16 PM	#59
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	lol...nope, but you can go pull one out of a creek if you like. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

11-28-2007, 08:17 PM	#60
classicman barely disguised asshole, keeper of all that is holy. Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 23,401	long walk/ride/flight to there from here. I'm like 3/4 of the way around the world.

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