The absurdity of Donald Trump

[sexobon]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

Altered how? You said that the idea of internal medical treatment was valid...

I addressed what I quoted, the question of whether or not Trump was being sarcastic at the time of his statement. I pointed out that the concept of something being used for external (topical) treatment also being used for internal treatment has precedence and that Trump seemed to have been serious about that much. I never said Trump's public speculation about it in regard to coronavirus wasn't inappropriate; or, even dangerous. That's something you read into it, perhaps after Dani's subsequent post introduced that matter. I haven't replied to it.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by sexobon

I addressed what I quoted, the question of whether or not Trump was being sarcastic at the time of his statement. I pointed out that the concept of something being used for external (topical) treatment also being used for internal treatment has precedence and that Trump seemed to have been serious about that much. I never said Trump's public speculation about it in regard to coronavirus wasn't inappropriate; or, even dangerous. That's something you read into it, perhaps after Dani's subsequent post introduced that matter. I haven't replied to it.

Fair enough; if all you were doing was saying that he wasn't being sarcastic, then we're in agreement. Please treat the 'you' in my initial response as a generic 'you'.

As an aside, obligatory XKCD:

[Griff]

Maybe that's what these toy soldiers were trying to say?

[DanaC]

Every now and again, as heated as they sometimes got, I miss political arguments/discussions with my dad.

I do wonder what he would have made of all this. And then I think, with his COPD the current situation would have been terrifying. And trying to self isolate in a hoarders house - unable to spend most of his day out and about as he preferred to do. Maybe its a boon he didn't have to see what is happening right now.

I can't image what he would have thought of Trump - I think he'd have found him too boorish and dishonest.

I suspect he'd have liked Boris though.

[tw]

From that NY Post article:

Sales of chloroquine phosphate skyrocketed last month after some studies found that a pharmaceutical version of the chemical could be a possible treatment for COVID-19.

Prayers to god also are a possible treatment. Trump did not recommend that. So he must be Satan. To deny us a cure.

[DanaC]

There was a lot of fuss in the media about Boris Johnson being Britain's Trump... Aside from the hair and some occasional gormlessness, I struggle to see the similarity.

[Griff]

Apparently you educate the rich over there?

[tw]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Aside from the hair and some occasional gormlessness, I struggle to see the similarity.

Do he intentionally ignore facts and science to make contrary decisions? Then he is simply another Trump. But then he so ignored reality as to even get Covid-19 sick. And then finally admitted a problem exists.

Of course he does not show as much contempt and hate for his fellow countrymen. Not like Trump does.

[DanaC]

As much as it pains me to defend Boris on any score: yes, he was slow to take the country into lockdown and the level of testing was insufficient; but he was absolutely already taking this seriously prior to getting Covid-19.

There was not the same level of denial as there was with Trump, and the science at the time was conflicted on the pros and cons of full lockdown versus advice for certain parts of the population, or anybody with symptons to self-isolate.

They were slow off the mark, and there have been some almighty fuck ups around sourcing adequate PPE - but the degree of action the govenment has undertaken is pretty staggering, and the level of support being offered to businesses and individuals affected by the lockdown to try to make sure the economy stands a chance of recovery and people aren't forced out of lockdown by economic need is beyond anything I would ever have imagined possible - it's still not enough, and there are gaps in that support, but it's a hell of a start.

I know at least 6 people who live near me who are on the furlough scheme, with the government covering the cost of 80% of their wages so the companies they work for don't have to let them go.

There are things they have done, or not done, that I think have cost us, but I think things could have been much, much worse - and for the most part they have done enough to retain the good will of much of the country - even from people like me who are their natural opposition.

The worst of their offences really predate this crisis - they were slow to recognise the danger before it started to build in the UK - but once they did they really went for it. Unfortunately, the biggest fuck up was in not sorting out the testing and the PPE before the pandemic actually struck us, by which tine sourcing such things became a serious problem. They also systematically defunded the health service in real terms and further fragmented it with public-private partnerships for a decade - so it was not in its most robust state when this thing kicked off.

i only hope that in the years following this crisis, when the question of austerity to lower the debt levels raises its head people remember the front line public workers whose wages they are electing to freeze, and the 'minimum wage heroes' keeping the supermarket shelves stocked who still need to claim some benefits because their wage isnt enough to live on.

For now - as frustrating as the PPE and testing fuckups are - I am broadly on board with how the government is handling this.

[tw]

Originally Posted by DanaC

They were slow off the mark, and there have been some almighty fuck ups around sourcing adequate PPE

Threat was well understood in January. But at highest levels of government - Johnson - the denial was rabid. He ignored five Cobra meetings - five weeks of preparation in January and February. He even kept shaking hands. Insisting this was only another flu.

Unknown is if he even used the word hoax like Trump did.

British passengers on the Diamond Princess, by this time, made it obvious how serious this threat. And still he did nothing until mid March. And only paid any serious attention about the time he got sick.

He also denies science on global warming. And even lied about Brexit. The only reason he is PM, Corbyn is like Bernie Sanders - just as bad - is not talented at the art of lying.

When you say they were slow off the mark, it was not science and adults. They were accurately throwing out warnings with numbers in January. But like Trump, his emotions (not logical thought) resulted in obstructions.

Once he was sick and was no longer in the decision seat, then things were fully permitted to solve this pandemic problem.

Meanwhile in nations run by leaders who make decisions from facts (ie Germany), preparations were in place in time. Merkel listened to facts - and not to emotions and political rhetoric.

Notice when the threat was understood - January. Notice when I bought my face masks. January. Problem was so many people before me already saw it coming. Masks were hard to find in the beginning of January. Due to so many who accurately saw the threat.

[Luce]

Johnson's response was "let it go through the population."

[tw]

We now know another example of what a lying president will do to enrich himself at the expense of all Americans. And why anti-American extremists love him because he will 'wreck shit'.

From the Economist of 16 May 2020:

Last September a leak suggested that Donald Trump's administration was mulling steps to rid American exchanges of Chinese firms and force investors to dump stocks listed in mainland China. The share of prices of Alibaba, an e-commerce giant, and Baidu, a search engine, slid. So did the yuan. Within a day , however, then government denied having such plans, calling then "fake news". Insiders say "old-school" Republicans on Capitol Hill, who favour free markets, prevailed over the president's jingoistic entourage. Markets signed in relief.

This week, though, the rhetoric was amplified. On May 11th administration officials urged the independent board overseeing the Thrift Saving Plan, the government's main pension fund, worth $600bn, to freeze plans to invest in Chinese firms. Investors' money, they argued, would be at risk in the firms were to be later whacked with American sanctions punishing China for its all alleged culpability in allowing the coronavirus to spread.

What culpability? No facts justify those Trump lies. Even the Defense Department cannot find this evidence that Trump says he has. Sound like Saddam's WMDs?

This is how wars get invented. Then the extremists will gleefully murder another 5000 American servicemen on a lie?

Wars do not happen when nations work together with massive economic and financial ties. TPP was a spectacular plan to pull China into free markets by forcing them to address problems such as ownership requirements and technology sharing. And to form a powerful economic (and later military) alliance in that region that could even address the South China Sea problem (ie Sprately and Parcel Islands that UT, last I read, still denies.) All that is too complicate for a "30 second attention span". He wants to harm any potential friend or trading partner and even America's closest military allies to advance himself. Since, as he has done his entire life, he wants to stiff anyone only to enrich himself.

He even has a long history of not paying contractors. And would not feel guilty about murdering someone on Fifth Ave.

Wag the dog. It worked for Hitler. It works for Trump.

Only the least educated actually think he addressed a Covid-19 problem. When he even called his own science advisors as wrong. Because what they say does not promote Trump. As a result, American has some of the highest Covid-19 death rates (UK's are higher). They believe him only because he said he did something. Anti-Americans do not even demand reasons why with numbers; automatically believe Trump lies.

Meanwhile, people who work for America - Inspector Generals - are under attack by a leader who makes Nixon look honest. Because Inspector Generals identify government corruption, waste, fraud, and liars. Trump believes all that is good. He used such techniques his entire life. He even lies daily. He cannot have any Inspector General say he lied. Since they work for America - and not Trump.

[glatt]

Did the Economist really print that quoted bit there? It's got more typos and mistakes than I would expect from the Economist.

"calling then "fake news""

"Markets signed in relief."

[sexobon]

Originally Posted by tw

An extra space followed by a comma instead of a semicolon?

Originally Posted by tw

Does "all alleged" mean that everyone alleged it; or, that it's completely an allegation rather than partially an allegation?

It's looking like the Economist is a whacko extremist organization out to subvert the American English language.

[Happy Monkey]

Looks like tw transcribed instead of cut & pasted.