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Old 05-15-2007, 06:28 PM   #556
tw
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In Ford Motor, when an MBA did not understand how the work gets done, then he hires subordinates. To become productive again (after we kicked out Henry Ford by not buying his products), Ford Motor cut their management from 48 layers down to five.

"Mission Accomplished" from the Sec of Defense and Joint Chiefs is then run by Central Command and then commanders in Iraq and Afghanistan. Today, George Jr added more management layers. From ABC News of 15 May 2007:
Quote:
Bush Taps New 'War Czar'
In the newly created position of assistant to the president and deputy national security adviser for Iraq and Afghanistan policy and implementation, Lute would have the power to direct the Pentagon, State Department and other agencies involved in the two conflicts.

Lute would report directly to the president and to National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley.

Filling the position had become a priority for the White House, after a handful of retired generals told the White House they did not want the job. Among them, retired Marine Corps four-star Gen. Jack Sheehan, who proved an embarrassment to the White House after he wrote an op-ed piece in the Washington Post saying there were "huge shortcomings" in the White House view of the strategy in Iraq.
Of course, anyone without contempt for the troops agrees with so many generals who blame George Jr (Rumsfeld, Cheney, etc) for the destruction of the US military. That is so obvious to those who also saw the stupidity of "Mission Accomplished" on and after 2003.
Quote:
"What I found in discussions with current and former members of this administration," wrote Sheehan, "is that there is no agreed upon strategic view of the Iraq problem or the region."
At this point, every Cellar dweller should be fully cognizant of what Generals such as Sheehan have been saying for years: no strategic objective.

Those who use a political agenda to proclaim support for the troops - they must deny reality. One will even claim he never associated 11 September with "Mission Accomplished" even after those above quotes are his. But then Urbane Guerrilla represents those who have so much contempt for the American soldier - and the world.

No strategic objective. More layers of bureaucracy. This man still has another 1.5 years to screw up America. Notice how much he did only in the first 1.5 years. He can still do much damage so as to protect his legacy at the expense of all citizens in the world. How many hundred thousand death Iraqis are on his hands? Meanwhile TheMercenary now posts this is good because so few died.
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Old 05-15-2007, 09:20 PM   #557
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so as to protect his legacy
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.
His legacy as the worst president ever? Not much need to protect that, he's in no danger of losing it.
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Old 05-16-2007, 07:12 AM   #558
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Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce View Post
His legacy as the worst president ever? Not much need to protect that, he's in no danger of losing it.
*knocks on wood*

Be careful Bruce, you never know who we will have in two years.
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Old 05-16-2007, 07:24 AM   #559
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I'm excited aren't you?
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Old 05-16-2007, 10:14 AM   #560
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Thank goodness Griff is going to be president...there isn't much in the way of other decent choices.
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Old 05-16-2007, 10:27 AM   #561
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Apparently we are in even worse shape than I thought.
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Old 05-16-2007, 11:19 AM   #562
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You already have my vote, and Spexxvet's...that's two!
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Old 05-28-2007, 07:01 AM   #563
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From The NY Times of 28 May 2007:
Quote:
As Allies Turn Foe, Disillusion Rises in Some G.I.'s
But now on his third deployment in Iraq, he is no longer a believer in the mission. The pivotal moment came, he says, this February when soldiers killed a man setting a roadside bomb. When they searched the bomber's body, they found identification showing him to be a sergeant in the Iraqi Army.

"I thought: 'What are we doing here? Why are we still here?'" said Sergeant Safstrom, a member of Delta Company of the First Battalion, 325th Airborne Infantry, 82nd Airborne Division. "We're helping guys that are trying to kill us. We help them in the day. They turn around at night and try to kill us."

His views are echoed by most of his fellow soldiers in Delta Company, renowned for its aggressiveness. ...

But in interviews with more than a dozen soldiers in this 83-man unit over a one-week period, most said they were disillusioned by repeated deployments, by what they saw as the abysmal performance of Iraqi security forces and by a conflict that they considered a civil war, one they had no ability to stop.

They had seen shadowy militia commanders installed as Iraqi Army officers, they said, had come under increasing attack from roadside bombs - planted within sight of Iraqi Army checkpoints - and had fought against Iraqi soldiers whom they thought were their allies. ...

To Sergeant O'Flarity, the Iraqi security forces are militias beholden to local leaders, not the Iraqi government. "Half of the Iraqi security forces are insurgents," he said. ...

... as he neared an Iraqi police checkpoint with a convoy of Humvees, Sergeant Griffin spotted what looked like a camouflaged cinderblock and immediately halted the convoy. His vigilance may have saved the lives of several soldiers. Under the camouflage was a massive, six-array, explosively formed penetrator - a deadly roadside bomb that cuts through the Humvees' armor with ease.

... As the ordnance team rolled back to base, they were attacked with a second roadside bomb near another Iraqi checkpoint. One soldier was killed and two were wounded.

No one has been able to explain why two bombs were found near Iraqi checkpoints, bombs that Iraqi soldiers and the police had either failed to notice or helped to plant.
What are George Jr's reasons to stay? Same reasons to justify Vietnam in 1971. Deja vue Nam.
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Old 05-31-2007, 01:08 AM   #564
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American ignorance and stupidity are not limited to replacing containment with pre-emption. It exists in virtually all parts of American government agendas. From the NY Times of 31 May 2007:
Quote:
Rice Clashes With Russian on Kosovo and Missiles
The United States and Russia, with relations between them at their most contentious since the collapse of the Soviet Union, openly sparred here on Wednesday at a meeting of foreign ministers of the Group of 8 industrialized nations.

The Russian foreign minister, Sergey V. Lavrov, accused the United States of starting a new arms race and implicitly threatened to veto any United Nations Security Council resolution that, like the one proposed by the United States and its European allies, would recognize the independence of Kosovo.

Even as the White House and the Kremlin were announcing plans for a rare kiss-and-make-up meeting between President Bush and President Vladimir V. Putin, their top diplomats were clashing here ...

Their clashes are indicative of a chill in their countries' relations. In February, Mr. Putin delivered a blistering speech accusing the United States of undermining international institutions and making the Middle East more unstable through its clumsy handling of the Iraq war. ...

At the meeting on Wednesday, Mr. Lavrov repeatedly questioned why the United States was so intent on resolving Kosovo's status when other areas of the world were in dispute.

"Lavrov said, 'Why don't we solve the case of Western Sahara first?'" said a European official who was at the session, speaking on condition of anonymity under customary diplomatic rules. "He even brought up Abkhazia," the obscure Black Sea region that has been trying to secede from Georgia.

And every time Lavrov said something, Condi would jump in, the official said. "It was like tennis."
In an earlier meeting of major nations. Putin requested to talk frankly. He warned that the US was repeatedly doing things that threatened to restart the Cold War. Truth be told - Putin is right.
Quote:
A senior Bush administration official acknowledged that the administration, in more than six years, had not figured out how to manage its relationship with Russia.
Duhhhhh. Clinton, George Sr, and Reagan had no problem. All were smart enough to even recognize the power of containment and the dangers of pre-emption. Clinton effected regime change when the regime was massacring its own people - twice and without military invasion. George Jr is even losing both wars that he created.

George Jr terminated the anti-ballistic missile treaty unilaterally. He is attempting to do same to the nuclear test ban treaty and the non-proliferation treaty. He destroyed an agreement that would have brought N Korea into the world. He destroyed relations with Syria, What could be better than all this? Restart the Cold War. But then wacko extremists are so suspicious that Condi Rice even mistakenly called them the USSR in a public statement. Putin has every reason to fear a US incompetence to restart the Cold War.

The only nation that keeps the US from unilaterally releasing (Pearl Harboring) a nuclear war is Russia. Would Cheney think twice before ordering a pre-emtive nuclear attack. Obviously not.
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Old 05-31-2007, 05:25 AM   #565
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Well yeah, but they are consistant... that should count for something.
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Old 05-31-2007, 06:13 AM   #566
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You know how you read about the outbreak of WWI and it just doesn't make much sense... I'm starting to get that ole "leaders just like conflict" feeling.
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Old 06-21-2007, 10:48 PM   #567
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From the NY Times of 22 Jun 2007:
Quote:
Agency Is Target in Cheney Fight on Secrecy Data
For four years, Vice President Dick Cheney has resisted routine oversight of his office's handling of classified information, and when the National Archives unit that monitors classification in the executive branch objected, the vice president’s office suggested abolishing the oversight unit, according to documents released yesterday by a Democratic congressman.
Why would they fear being held accountable for what they do with secrets?
Quote:
... in May 2006 a former aide in Mr. Cheney's office, Leandro Aragoncillo, pleaded guilty to passing classified information to plotters trying to overthrow the president of the Philippines.
What happened when the US government conspired institute regime change in Australia (ie Falcon and the Snowman). (Non-Americans should have no say about these things since America has *every right* to institute regime change in Australia and Phillippines - Cheney doctrine.)

Clearly only Cheney can be trusted. How many more Cheney subordinates will be found guilty of corruption? Or not if even e-mails are destroyed in violation of Federal law and without prosecution. This is a right wing wacko in power. Laws don't apply to him.

Last time we had leaders with this much contempt for the law and for American principles - the president was the crook Nixon. His VP? A convicted crook named Spiro Agnew. 30 years later - Deja vue.

Last edited by tw; 06-21-2007 at 10:58 PM.
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Old 06-21-2007, 10:51 PM   #568
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An accurate source of reality has been PBS Frontline. An hour long news documentary on various subjects. Frontline has been particularly accurate on "Mission Accomplished" with their reports entitled Rumsfeld's War, The Torture Question, The Dark Side, and especially the blatant examples that violate even basic military science 101 principles The Lost Year in Iraq .

So how do we terminate a defeat called "Mission Accomplished"? The Iraq Study Group provided clear and stunningly comprehensive solution to minimize that defeat. But that defeat would be on George Jr's legacy.

Frontline details and organizes current events that may result in a fourth campaign defeat - EndGame

For example, obvious was an American defeat in Fallujah. Not the battle. Tactically, Second Fallujah was a victory. But strategically, Fallujah was a defeat; especially First Fallujah. Marines lost that one twice for no fault of their own. First when Marines were ordered to solve a crime problem faster with a full out military assault. Second when the same Washington micromanagers became appalled at what they had created and ordered the Marines to withdrawal. Iraqis then realized Americans could be defeated; inspiring growth of an insurgency fueled by widespread Iraqi dislike of an American occupation.

Not obviously stated in that report: at no time do even major strategists ask something so simple: "What do the Iraqis want?" Therein lays the question necessary for a strategic objective. Without those answers, then Americans could easily remain in Iraq for another decade - just like Nam.

Presented in Frontline's EndGame is the same scenario that lost Nam. Battles can be won but a war be lost.

Each Frontline reports is must viewing for those who learn history from current events. How badly is "Mission Accomplished" being lost? Most do not realize how bad even Fallujah was. Contempt for the Marines in Washington was appalling. A tactical victory such as Second Fallujah was, in reality, a strategic defeat. Appreciate why a once peaceful Diaylah province is now in civil war. Learn from EndGame why both Nam and “Mission Accomplished” are defeats – even when soldiers win each battle. Appreciate why 85% of all problems are directly traceable to a mental midget.

Last edited by tw; 06-21-2007 at 10:56 PM.
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Old 06-21-2007, 10:59 PM   #569
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See what pretty jewelry Daughter No. 1 makes?
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Old 06-21-2007, 11:06 PM   #570
tw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloud View Post
[image= The only BUSH I trust is my own]
Last time I looked where one was supposed to be, nothing was there. No wonder he never asks a single question or reads his memos. Nothing there.
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