Do You Own a Gun?

[BigV]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Can you clear up these apparent contradictions?

I'll answer this one.

No.

[wolf]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Wrong.

You didn't read what was on that link you posted, did you?

Federal law imposes the following restrictions aimed at younger persons:

A person must be 21 years of age to purchase a handgun or handgun ammunition, and 18 years of age to buy a rifle or shotgun or ammunition, from a retail firearm dealer. (GCA, 1968)

A person under age 18 may not possess a handgun or handgun ammunition, and it is illegal for a person to provide a handgun or handgun ammunition to a person under age 18, except for target shooting, hunting, or certain other exempted purposes. (Youth Handgun Safety Act, 1994)

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by wolf

You didn't read what was on that link you posted, did you?

I did. What's all this, then?

State Laws


The following is a list of additional restrictions imposed by individual states. Please note that cities and localities may have their own firearms ordinances in addition to federal and state laws. Some information on some of these laws is published in the BATF`s State Laws and Published Ordinances -- Firearms, available from the U.S. Government Printing Office, Washington, D.C. 20402 and on the web at www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/statelaws/. However, laws change, so you should always confirm the law with the appropriate federal state and local law enforcement agencies.

Alabama - It is unlawful to deliver a handgun to any person under 18.

Alaska - An unemancipated minor under 16 years of age may not possess a firearm without the consent of parent or guardian.

Arkansas - It is unlawful to sell, give, rent, or otherwise furnish a firearm to a person under 18 without the consent of a parent, guardian or other person responsible for the general supervision of the minors welfare.

Arizona - An unemancipated person under 18 not accompanied by a parent, grandparent, guardian or a certified hunter safety instructor or certified firearms safety instructor acting with consent of the minor`s parent, grandparent or guardian shall not carry or possess on his person, within his immediate control, or in or on a means of transportation a firearm in any place open to the public or on any street, highway, or on private property, except private property owned or leased by the minor or the minor`s parent, grandparent or guardian. This prohibition does not apply to a person between 14 and 17 engaged in lawful hunting, marksmanship practice, transportation of an unloaded firearm for the purpose of hunting or, between 5:00 AM and 10:00 PM, transportation of an unloaded firearm for the purpose of marksmanship at a range or other area where the discharge of firearms is not prohibited. This law applies in counties with a population exceeding 500,000. However, counties with a lesser population, or cities and towns within such counties, may adopt an ordinance identical to this law.

California - A minor may not possess a handgun except with written permission or under the supervision of a parent or guardian.

Colorado - It is unlawful for any person under 18 to possess a handgun, and it is unlawful to provide or permit a juvenile to possess a handgun. Exceptions to this prohibition are:
1. Attendance at a hunters safety course or firearms safety course.
2. Engaging in lawful target shooting.
3. Participating in or practice for a performance by a group organized under IRA code 501(c)(3) which uses firearms as part of such performance.
4. Hunting or trapping with a valid license.
5. Traveling with an unloaded handgun to or from any activity described in subparagraphs 1 through 4 above.
6. While on real property under the control of the juveniles parent, legal guardian or grandparent and who has the permission of the parent or legal guardian to possess a handgun.
7. While at the juveniles residence and with permission of parent or legal guardian to possess a handgun for self -defense.

Connecticut - It is unlawful to sell a firearm to any person convicted of a felony, any illegal alien or any minor under the age of 18. It is unlawful to sell or transfer a handgun to any person who is forbidden to possess a handgun, or to a person under 21. However, a handgun may be temporarily transferred to a person under 21 for target shooting under the immediate supervision of a person eligible to possess a handgun and such use is otherwise permitted by law.

Washington D.C. - All rifles and shotguns must be registered with the Metropolitan Police. To obtain a registration certificate, the applicant must be 21(or be over 18 and have a liability statement signed by a guardian).

Delaware - It is unlawful for a parent to permit a child under 16 years of age to possess a firearm or air or BB gun except under the direct supervision of an adult.

Florida - It is unlawful to sell, give, lend or transfer a pistol or other arm or weapon "other than an ordinary pocketknife" to a minor under the age of 18 without a parent`s permission, or to any person of unsound mind.
It is unlawful for any dealer to sell any "pistol, Springfield rifle or other repeating rifle" to a minor.
A minor under 18 may not possess a firearm, other than an unloaded firearm at home, unless engaged in lawful activities.

Georgia - It is unlawful for any person to sell or furnish a handgun to a person under 21 years of age.

Hawaii - It is unlawful for a minor under 18 to possess a rifle or shotgun. However, a person 16 or over, and any person under 16 while accompanied by an adult, may carry and use any lawfully acquired rifle or shotgun, and suitable ammunition therefore, while engaged in hunting, or while going to and from the place of hunting, or while engaged in target shooting at a range.

Iowa - It is unlawful to sell, loan, give, or make available a rifle or shotgun or ammunition therefor to a person under 18. Caliber .22 rimfire ammunition is deemed to be rifle ammunition. However, a parent, guardian, spouse who is 18 or older, or another with the express consent of the minor`s parent or guardian or spouse who is 18 or older, may allow a minor to possess a rifle or shotgun or ammunition therefor which may be lawfully used.
It is unlawful to sell, loan, give, or make available a handgun or ammunition therefor to a person under 21. Exceptions to this prohibition are:
1. A parent, guardian, or spouse who is 21 or older, of a person less than 21 but at least 14 may allow the person to possess a handgun or ammunition therefor for any lawful purpose while under the direct supervision of the parent or guardian or spouse who is 21 or older, or while the person receives instruction in the proper use of handguns from an instructor 21 or older, with the consent of such parent, guardian or spouse.
2. A person under 21 but at least 18 may possess a handgun and ammunition therefor while on military duty, while a peace officer, security guard, or correctional officer, when such duty requires the possession of such a weapon or while the person receives instruction in the proper use of a handgun from an instructor who is 21 or older.

Idaho - It is unlawful for a child under 12 to possess any shotgun, rifle, or other firearm while in the fields or forests or in any tent, camp, auto, or any other vehicle.

Illinois - It is unlawful for any person under the age of 18 to possess a handgun or concealable firearm. A person under the age of 21 is not required to have an Firearms Owner`s Identification Card (FOI) in order to possess a firearm or ammunition while under the immediate control of a parent, guardian or other adult who has a valid FOI.

Indiana - It is unlawful for any person except a parent or guardian to sell or give a handgun to any person under 18.

Kansas - "It is unlawful for persons under 18 to possess a firearm with a barrel less than 12 inches unless such persons are: (1) in attendance at a hunter`s or firearms safety course, (2) target shooting at an established range, (3) engaging in an organized competition involving the use of such firearm or participating in or practicing for a performance by an organization exempt from federal income tax pursuant to section 501(c)(3) of the internal revenue code of 1986 which uses firearms as a part of such performance, (4) hunting or trapping with a valid license, (5) traveling to or from any activity described in (1) through (4) above with the firearm being unloaded, secured and outside immediate access, (6) on real property under control of their parents, legal guardian or grandparent, with permission to possess such firearm, or (7) at their parents` or legal guardian`s residence with permission to possess such firearm for self-defense."

...

etc.

[Spexxvet]

And what about the article (that I can't find) about the three-month-old who owns a gun?

[monster]

I'm thinking that the legalese makes a distinction between ownership and possesion?

[Radar]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Can you clear up these apparent contradictions?

There is no contradiction to clear up. The only thing that needs to be cleared up is your cluttered and dishonest mind.

[Ibby]

No, Radar, I think she's right... It can't be an inherent human right you're born with but that kids don't have... thats a contradiction.

[Radar]

You have a right to life when you are born and with that comes the right to defend that life. Parent's are the guardians of their children until they reach the age of majority and as such, they hold all decision making powers, and decide whether or not it is appropriate for them to have guns or if the parent will exercise the right to defend their family.

So there is no contradiction. We have a right to own guns at birth, and until we have reached the age of majority, that right is either exercised or not by our parents.

When we reach the age of majority we take responsibility for our own life and our parents are no longer our guardians.

[Ibby]

We have a right to own guns at birth that we don't have the right to exercise ourselves?

Still not making sense to me, dude.

[Radar]

From the moment of your birth until the moment you reach the age of majority (Which is recognized as 18 in America) you are not really a person under the law. You are merely the chattel of your parents. You don't have any decision making authority or powers over your life. Your parents hold these powers for you until you reach the age of majority.

Your parents do not have the right to physically endanger you, but they do have the right to decide which of your rights they will allow you to exercise until you are the age of majority and are responsible for your own life and can make those decisions for yourself.

You have the right to own a gun at birth. Your parents decide whether or not you will be allowed to exercise that right.

Let's use someone else as an example other than a child to clear up the point.

If you are a prisoner, you are prevented from exercising certain rights like the right to go where you want, when you want. The warden of the prison will decide which of your rights you will be allowed to exercise while you're in the prison and which you will not. This doesn't mean you don't have the rights, just that you will not be allowed to exercise them. Once you get out of prison, you are able to choose for yourself when you will exercise your rights again.

[Ibby]

So we have basic rights inherent to being a person but only if the government says you're old enough?

[wolf]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

And what about the article (that I can't find) about the three-month-old who owns a gun?

The three month old does not own a gun, but was issued an Illinois Firearms Owner ID card ... all that means when the other legal requirements for gun ownership are met, he'll be able to apply to purchase a gun in that state.

There is a difference between "owning" and "using under supervision."

[Aliantha]

I have a philosophical question which I've thought about often while reading arguments about how it's unconstitutional to have restrictions on gun ownership.

If that is true, then what about all the other laws that restrict people from doing what they want? Some road rules. Smoking laws. Curfews. monopoly laws for business. There are so many situations where this argument can apply. I don't see how it's valid.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Ringer's Paradox: it states, with considerable justice, that A freedom restricted is a freedom preserved.

In practice, laws of that kind are codified with the aim of preventing problems arising from exercising a freedom with absolutely no limitation whatsoever. The freedom to swing a fist ends where the other fellow's nose begins, and so forth. That is what Ringer's statement amounts to.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Ringer's Paradox: it states, with considerable justice, that A freedom restricted is a freedom preserved.

In practice, laws of that kind are codified with the aim of preventing problems arising from exercising a freedom with absolutely no limitation whatsoever. The freedom to swing a fist ends where the other fellow's nose begins, and so forth. That is what Ringer's statement amounts to.

So restricting guns (not that I endorse it) is an effort to preserve that freedom - cool!