Vaccination & epidemic

[skysidhe]

There are many types of encephalopathy. Some examples include:

• Mitochondrial encephalopathy - Metabolic disorder caused by dysfunction of mitochondrial DNA. Can affect many body systems, particularly the brain and nervous system.
• Glycine encephalopathy - A pediatric metabolic disorder
• Hepatic encephalopathy - Arising from advanced cirrhosis of the liver
• Hypoxic ischemic encephalopathy - Permanent or transitory encephalopathy arising from severely reduced oxygen delivery to the brain
• Static encephalopathy - Unchanging, or permanent, brain damage
• Uremic encephalopathy - Arising from high levels of toxins normally cleared by the kidneys -- rare where dialysis is readily available
• Wernicke's encephalopathy - Arising from thiamine deficiency, usually in the setting of alcoholism
• Hashimoto's encephalopathy - Arising from an auto-immune disorder
• Hypertensive encephalopathy - Arising from acutely increased blood pressure
• Lyme encephalopathy - Arising from the Borrelia Burgdorferi bacteria.
• Toxic encephalopathy - A form of encephalopathy caused by chemicals, often resulting in permanent brain damage
• Toxic-Metabolic encephalopathy - A catch-all for brain dysfunction caused by infection, organ failure, or intoxication
• Transmissible spongiform encephalopathy - A collection of diseases all caused by prions, and characterized by "spongy" brain tissue (riddled with holes), impaired locomotion or coordination, and a 40 out of 40 fatality rate. Includes bovine spongiform encephalopathy (mad cow disease), scrapie, and kuru among others.

Encephalopathy alters brain function and/or structure. It may be caused by an infectious agent (bacteria, virus, or prion), metabolic or mitochondrial dysfunction, brain tumor or increased intracranial pressure, exposure to toxins (including solvents, excess animal protein, drugs, alcohol, paints, industrial chemicals, and certain metals), radiation, trauma, poor nutrition, or lack of oxygen or blood flow to the brain.
The hallmark of encephalopathy is an altered mental state. Depending on the type and severity of encephalopathy, common neurological symptoms are loss of cognitive function, subtle personality changes, inability to concentrate, lethargy, and depressed consciousness. Other neurological signs may include myoclonus (involuntary twitching of a muscle or group of muscles), asterixis (abrupt loss of muscle tone, quickly restored), nystagmus (rapid, involuntary eye movement), tremor, seizures, jactitation (restless picking at things characteristic of severe infection), and respiratory abnormalities such as Cheyne-Stokes respiration (cyclic waxing and waning of tidal volume), apneustic respirations, and post-hypercapnic apnea.


I don't believe that autism falls under encephalopathy.

I can understand your angle of of toxic-metabolic encephalopathy in regards to autism which would be symptomatic but autism in itself is asymptomatic.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by skysidhe

I can understand your angle of of toxic-metabolic encephalopathy in regards to autism which would be symptomatic but autism in itself is asymptomatic.

Whoa, wait a damn minute here.
asymptomatic = adjective: having no symptoms of illness or disease.

If there are millions of kids with Autism, and Autism in asymptomatic, how the fuck do we know they have Autism? That makes no sense at all.

[Flint]

You just Googled that 15 minutes ago, didn't you?

[skysidhe]

Originally Posted by Flint

You just Googled that 15 minutes ago, didn't you?

lol yes flint I can too be an instant expert hehheh

asymptomatic =

People can be on the autism spectrum without having any symptoms. In other words there is nothing to cure.
It is not a disease.


No I am not a neurologist.I am not talking about your experience. I get that.
I am not sure how pointing that out is helpful or respectful since you don't even know who you are talking to. As far as you know I could be a parent just like you with a child deemed autistic/pdd/aspergers.
I might be a special ed IA working with autistic kids.
You just never know and your experiences are true for you as I said but you are about treating organically the toxins that create reactions in your kids. I say great!

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by skysidhe

I don't believe that autism falls under encephalopathy.

Sorry, but you're not a neurologist. My son's current official diagnosis is actually "encephalopathy with autistic symptom presentation." The underlying hypothesis of the treatments we are pursuing is that most cases of autism are actually combinations of mitochondrial encephalopathy, atypical Glycine encephalopathy, and toxic encephalopathy. In addition, many autistic kids have been found to have chronic Lyme infections and thiamine deficiencies, both of which can also lead to encephalopathy, but these seem to be relatively small contributors compared to the other conditions.

I have no idea what "autism in itself is asymptomatic" is supposed to mean.

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by skysidhe

People can be on the autism spectrum without having any symptoms.

No, by definition they can't. They cannot prove what causes autism spectrum disorders, and there is no test for it. It is by very definition the presentation of the symptoms. There are many on the spectrum who can certainly function in day-to-day life just fine, and who would not be considered in any way disabled, but they still have certain classifiable symptoms, or they are not on the spectrum.

It's not about one experience versus another. You wrote an incorrect statement regarding the neurological definition and scope of encephalopathy. It wouldn't matter if you were an ASD parent, a special ed IA, or an actual degreed neurologist, your statement would still be factually wrong.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

No, by definition they can't. They cannot prove what causes autism spectrum disorders, and there is no test for it. It is by very definition the presentation of the symptoms. There are many on the spectrum who can certainly function in day-to-day life just fine, and who would not be considered in any way disabled, but they still have certain classifiable symptoms, or they are not on the spectrum.

There are others as well. Lupus for example. There is no "test" just a Dr's opinions based upon symptoms.

[skysidhe]

I should have said not having any symptoms of a disease.

Just because some people have trained themselves to function day to day they still may be on the autism spectrum. One can train oneself not to present those traits but still be on the autism spectrum.

I am trying to say and not very well is that the encephalopathy is a symptom and the autism is not. One is symptomatic and one is not.

So I agree with UT. The symptoms of encephalopathy can be treated but autism in itself is not a treatable disease. Autism isn't a symptom so it is not a disease referring what you said here:

[/quote clodfobble]
It's also important to understand that encephalopathy is an incredibly broad term that really just means some kind of neurological dysfunction. Autism, epilepsy, and a host of other diseases all fall under the encephalopathy umbrella. [/quote]


ps. I'm tired so lets just agree to disagree. -peace

[Clodfobble]

I'm sure UT is thrilled to have you lend your credence to his side.

[Undertoad]

Thanks for the corrections C. Desiree developed symptoms in early September and was treated by Dr. Buttar in late October.

Totally unfair leading question: based on what you know, would you have Dr. Buttar treat your son?

[Clodfobble]

Based on what I know, I'd consider it, but I'd have to meet with him individually and discuss things with him to know for sure. He is following a general treatment path that I agree with; however, like any medical procedure, it's entirely possible to screw it up in very dangerous ways. The thing that is novel is not the treatments he's using, but rather what he's using them for. Chelation drugs have been around forever, and are the standard accepted treatment for known cases of heavy metal poisoning. Anti-inflammatories are accepted as routine for a host of diseases. Mitochondrial dysfunction has likewise been on the medical books for decades. The only "alternative" part about it is that he (and hundreds of other doctors around the country) is using these treatments on conditions that are not generally accepted to be rooted in heavy metal poisoning, or inflammation, or metabolic imbalance. But there are of course lab tests to definitively confirm these conditions, and responsible doctors in Dr. Buttar's field perform them and treat based on their results. (On the other hand, it's been my experience that mainstream doctors will refuse to even consider testing for these other, known conditions, because that would be a tacit admission that they could somehow be connected to the neurological symptoms, which is a great big political minefield that they all want to avoid.)

So I would need to find out what sort of tests he runs and what medical justification he uses for each treatment. For example, there are some DAN doctors who will immediately prescribe antifungals for any autistic child who comes to see them, because that is a commonly needed treatment. But if they are not running the stool and urine cultures to determine that there actually is an infection, what strain it is, and what is the most appropriate drug and dosage to use in that case--which is something I can (and would continue to do, in this hypothetical case) confirm with other mainstream doctors, even while they shake their heads at the lab reports and marvel at what a complete coincidence it is that my son happened to have all these underlying conditions like I said he did--then I would not let him treat my child.

Actual conversation with my pediatrician:

Me: So if I brought my daughter to you, and said that I caught her eating paint off an old building, what would you do?
Her: Well, we'd want to run some tests on the paint to see if it contained lead.
Me: What if we ran across it on our vacation, hundreds of miles away, and you couldn't test the paint?
Her: In that case we would need to go ahead and test her for lead poisoning.
Me: How would you do that?
Her: The only way to do it would be to give her a small amount of the drugs used to pull lead out of the body, and if elevated levels of lead came out in her urine, then we'd know she needed to continue to be on those drugs until it was gone.
Me: So if I showed you a lab report that showed she had a bunch of lead in her system, you would be totally fine with treating that?
Her: Yes, that would be proof the paint had lead in it.
Me: What if I lied, and she hadn't eaten any paint?
Her: Well the lab test would then show--
Me: No, the lab test still shows she has tons of lead in her system, but I'm telling you she didn't come in contact with any major known sources of lead in the last few weeks.
Her: Well the lead must have come from somewhere.
Me: Right. So would you order the tests for her right now?
Her: No, if she isn't showing symptoms of lead poisoning, and you didn't see her come in contact with any, then there's no point in ordering the test.
Me: What are the symptoms of lead poisoning?
Her: Well, they're hard to detect, but things like confusion, abdominal problems, cognitive problems...
Me: My daughter has all those things.
Her: But your daughter has autism, so that explains them.
Me: So if I got another doctor to order the lab tests, and brought them to you, would you be willing to treat her for lead poisoning then, if the tests showed she needed it?
Her: Well... no I would recommend you have that doctor treat her. I'm not going to be comfortable treating her for a condition I know she doesn't have.
Me: Even if the lab tests--the same lab tests you would order if I lied and said she had eaten lead paint--showed she did have the condition?
Her: Yes.

Assuming Dr. Buttar is responsible in his use of testing, the only difference between him and the rest of the medical community is he's actually bothering to investigate what might be wrong, rather than writing it off as something tragic and unknowable.

[Undertoad]

Based on what I know, I'd consider it

Followup A: Do you believe Desiree had acute encephalopathy?

Followup B: Do you believe that Dr. Buttar's treatments solved it?

[skysidhe]

I am attempting to answer Bruce's question. I apologize for interrupting again. ( UT and Clod )

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

Sorry, but you're not a neurologist. My son's current official diagnosis is actually "encephalopathy with autistic symptom presentation." The underlying hypothesis of the treatments we are pursuing is that most cases of autism are actually combinations of mitochondrial encephalopathy, atypical Glycine encephalopathy, and toxic encephalopathy. I

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

If there are millions of kids with Autism, and Autism in asymptomatic, how the fuck do we know they have Autism? That makes no sense at all.

forget about my asymptomatic fumble. I used it meaning lacking a disease like encephalopathy. I used it badly but that doesn't make me wrong.


My summary of what I read last night.

Her son has an encephalopathy. She is focused on that area of symptomology.She and whomever 'are pursuing an hypothesis of
toxic encephalopathy'. She is pursuing a hypothesis.
It is a theory which is true in her situation but she is using too broad a brush to include all of autism which I disagree with.



Then She said autism was under the encephalopathy
umbrella. oh stop. - No toxic encephalopathy IS but autism is not.
(my point)




You asked, how to people tell if someone has autism?
This is the official criteria for that disability.





DIAGNOSTIC CRITERIA FOR 299.00 AUTISTIC DISORDER
A. A total of six (or more) items from (1), (2), and (3), with at
least two from (1), and one each from (2) and (3)




Autism, which affects thought, perception and attention, is not just one disorder with a well defined set of symptoms; autism is a broad spectrum of disorders that ranges from mild to severe. In addition, the behavior usually occurs across many different situations and is consistently inappropriate for their age.

In the diagnostic manual used to classify disabilities, the DSM-IV (American Psychiatric Association, 1994), “autistic disorder” is listed as a category under the heading of “Pervasive Developmental Disorders.” A diagnosis of autistic disorder is made when an individual displays 6 or more of 12 symptoms listed across three major areas: social interaction, communication, and behavior. When children display similar behaviors but do not meet the criteria for autistic disorder, they may receive a diagnosis of Pervasive Developmental Disorder-NOS (PDD not otherwise specified).

Problems in social relatedness and communication.

(Difficulty in mixing with other children; prefers to be alone; aloof manner; difficulty in expressing needs; uses gestures or pointing instead of words ).

Abnormal responses to one or a
combination of senses; such as sight, hearing, touch, balance, smell, taste, reaction to pain.


Sustained odd play.
Uneven gross/ fine motor skills.
Not responsive to verbal cues
acts as deaf.
Little or no eye contact.
Insistence on sameness; resist changes in routine.
Noticeable physical over activity or extreme under activity.
Tantrums; displays extreme distress for no apparent reason

DIAGNOSTIC CRITERIA FOR 299.00 AUTISTIC DISORDER
A. A total of six (or more) items from (1), (2), and (3), with at
least two from (1), and one each from (2) and (3)

(1) qualitative impairment in social interaction, as manifested by at least two of the following:

a) marked impairments in the use of multiple nonverbal behaviors such as eye-to-eye gaze, facial expression, body posture, and gestures to regulate social interaction

b) failure to develop peer relationships appropriate to
developmental level

c) a lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interests, or achievements with other people, (e.g., by a lack of showing,
bringing, or pointing out objects of interest to other people)

d) lack of social or emotional reciprocity ( note: in the
description, it gives the following as examples: not actively
participating in simple social play or games, preferring solitary
activities, or involving others in activities only as tools or
"mechanical" aids )

(2) qualitative impairments in communication as manifested by at least one of the following:

a) delay in, or total lack of, the development of spoken language
(not accompanied by an attempt to compensate through alternative modes of communication such as gesture or mime)

b) in individuals with adequate speech, marked impairment in the ability to initiate or sustain a conversation with others

c) stereotyped and repetitive use of language or idiosyncratic
language

d) lack of varied, spontaneous make-believe play or social
imitative play appropriate to developmental level

(3) restricted repetitive and stereotyped patterns of behavior,
interests and activities, as manifested by at least two of the
following:

a) encompassing preoccupation with one or more stereotyped and restricted patterns of interest that is abnormal either in
intensity or focus

b) apparently inflexible adherence to specific, nonfunctional
routines or rituals

c) stereotyped and repetitive motor mannerisms (e.g hand or finger flapping or twisting, or complex whole body movements)

d) persistent preoccupation with parts of objects

B. Delays or abnormal functioning in at least one of the following areas, with onset prior to age 3 years:

(1) social interaction

(2) language as used in social communication

(3) symbolic or imaginative play

C. The disturbance is not better accounted for by Rett's Disorder or Childhood Disintegrative Disorder

The critera for aspergers/PDD-Nos is a shorter list but simular.

Statement by Dr. Geri Dawson
Chief Science Officer, Autism Speaks
mitochondrial dysfunction

What percentage of children with autism suffer from this?
There have been very few cases of mitochondrial disorders reported in autism. However, since individuals with mitochondrial dysfunction may not show symptoms, it is difficult to determine how prevalent it really is.

What are the signs that a child has it?
It may present as low muscle tone and recurrent deteriorations. But in many (if not most) cases it is probably asymptomatic.

How would a vaccine influence a child with MD to cause autism?
An immune stimulation (including any infection) may increase the oxidative stress in cells (which could cause a child with a so far undiagnosed, asymptomatic mitochondrial dysfunction to now show evidence of the dysfunction). But it is also important to remember, an infection is a much greater immune stimulus than a vaccine inoculation.

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Followup A: Do you believe Desiree had acute encephalopathy?

Followup B: Do you believe that Dr. Buttar's treatments solved it?

A.) Yes, insomuch as I believe her neurological symptoms were real and not psychogenic, that automatically puts them under the category of acute encephalopathy. Like I said, it's not really a very useful diagnostic term. The important question is what caused it.

B.) I believe they improved the symptoms, yes. She isn't cured yet by his own account, and I don't know that she ever will be. Many metabolic processes can be permanently thrown out of balance--perhaps she will eventually be symptom-free, but only with continued medication, I don't know. Given that he indicates they "established as of this Friday" her mecury poisoning, I would assume that he is referring to lab tests confirming the presence of mercury and they are therefore pulling it out of her system, so one would expect additional improvement as the levels go down. It would be impossible to have large amounts of mercury in your system that weren't having some kind of effect, otherwise it would not be known as a poisonous substance.

[Undertoad]

He started chelation on the first day he saw her and she was reported to be 95% symptom free within 36 hours. You were skeptical of these results in post #464... still?