Obama's first failed appointment - Page 30

lookout123 · 04-21-2009, 01:36 AM

oops... 35%. me not goodly with numbers.

Believe it or not bruce I'm still a working people. So is my wife. So are my parents. Come to think of it, just about every damn person I know is a working person. Because I own my company I get the distinct pleasure of paying an additional 7.5% tax on my earnings before my normal taxes are even calculated.

x2 was referring to the spouse. If there is no spouse then this person should be looking for a roommate. and if they can't get 40 hours at that job they need to look for another job. and if minimum wage doesn't provide what they want (and it doesn't) they should be looking for ways to get a job that pays more. education, hard work, and desire are powerful when combined.

xoxoxoBruce · 04-21-2009, 01:50 AM

Spouse? Working spouse? That's a neat trick, two full time jobs when you're living in the park.

Yes education and good clothes do wonders, but both are pretty tough on $170 a week, in addition to living the good life.

classicman · 04-21-2009, 12:10 PM

$7.15 is the min in PA FWIW - as you were. You can survive, but no one is paying that little anyway - least around these parts.

lookout123 · 04-21-2009, 12:56 PM

Bruce, if there is a spouse, they should also be working to pay for the apartment. If there isn't a spouse then a roommate still cuts rent in half. I am not saying these are desirable living conditions, only that they are livable. The reality is minimum wage sucks. It is supposed to be the very basement of what can be paid and logically it is crappy. The truth is that nobody is a slave to that job though. You can sit there and think it is easy to say because I'm not there, but that is the point - I've been there and I'm not anymore. I struggled my way up the chain and I know for a fact anyone can do it.

I get tired of hearing about people being trapped. It is bullshit. People are only trapped by their own decisions. It may be extremely difficult, but it is 100% possible to work your way up the economic ladder. You don't need college degrees and tailored suits to get a job paying more than minimum. You need to have the desire to do whatever it takes, even if it is a job you well and truly hate, to move up. That is it.

TheMercenary · 04-21-2009, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lookout123

I get tired of hearing about people being trapped. It is bullshit. People are only trapped by their own decisions. It may be extremely difficult, but it is 100% possible to work your way up the economic ladder. You don't need college degrees and tailored suits to get a job paying more than minimum. You need to have the desire to do whatever it takes, even if it is a job you well and truly hate, to move up. That is it.

An education will help significantly in that endeavor. It really comes down to personal decisions people make and how much of a sacrifice they are willing to make to get out of where they are and into something better. It takes a lot of work.

lookout123 · 04-21-2009, 01:04 PM

A college education certainly does make it easier. The great thing is that anyone who wants it bad enough can get a degree too. BUT if they don't want to get a degree they certainly are not limited to janitorial jobs for life.

Bullitt · 04-21-2009, 02:13 PM

Yessir. My mom worked three jobs while taking classes to put herself through nursing school in her early 20's. Didn't own her first car till she was 24; 1978. Failed a chemistry class, sucked it up and retook the course the next semester seeking any available tutoring, even hounding the professor after class to make sure she knew her stuff right this time. She's told me and my brother more than once about the days when all she could afford was a pack of hotdogs for lunch, had to skip breakfast couldn't afford it. I admire my parents for their willingness and determination to not let their circumstances get the best of them.

A person may not be able to choose what situation he finds himself in, but can always choose how he will respond to that situation. Read a great book this semester called "Man's Search for Meaning" by Viktor Frankl in which he details his life surviving concentration camps for 3 years. Best passage out of the whole book: "We who lived in concentration camps can remember the men who walked through the huts comforting others, giving away their last piece of bread. They may have been few in number, but they offer sufficient proof that everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms—to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one's own way."

TheMercenary · 04-21-2009, 06:06 PM

I currently work between four and five jobs to get my family ahead.

sugarpop · 04-21-2009, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lookout123

Bruce, if there is a spouse, they should also be working to pay for the apartment. If there isn't a spouse then a roommate still cuts rent in half. I am not saying these are desirable living conditions, only that they are livable. The reality is minimum wage sucks. It is supposed to be the very basement of what can be paid and logically it is crappy. The truth is that nobody is a slave to that job though. You can sit there and think it is easy to say because I'm not there, but that is the point - I've been there and I'm not anymore. I struggled my way up the chain and I know for a fact anyone can do it.

I get tired of hearing about people being trapped. It is bullshit. People are only trapped by their own decisions. It may be extremely difficult, but it is 100% possible to work your way up the economic ladder. You don't need college degrees and tailored suits to get a job paying more than minimum. You need to have the desire to do whatever it takes, even if it is a job you well and truly hate, to move up. That is it.

Affording the bare necessities is NOT a living wage. That is a slave wage.

TheMercenary · 04-21-2009, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarpop

Affording the bare necessities is NOT a living wage. That is a slave wage.

Only if you are obsessed over the difference between what you have and what other more successful hard working people have. Dig deeper. Life is not a free ride. Buy a helmet.

sugarpop · 04-21-2009, 06:52 PM

Bullshit. You act like I think people flipping burgers should make what doctors make. I don't. You keep thinking my arguments are about me not having billions of dollars. It's not. You know me. You know money isn't that important to me. The world is, however, and the people at the very top are robbing everyone else, and that includes you. I don't know why you want to keep it that way.

TheMercenary · 04-21-2009, 06:55 PM

No, I am just saying if you are not happy with your station in life dig deeper and figure out a way out of your personal hell. But it is not my problem and I should not have to pay for your exodus.

lookout123 · 04-21-2009, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Affording the bare necessities is NOT a living wage. That is a slave wage.

repeating it without adding anything to it doesn't make it more true.

classicman · 04-21-2009, 09:55 PM

Affording the bare necessities IS exactly what a living wage is.

Quote:

Living wage is a term used to describe the minimum hourly wage necessary for a person to achieve some specific standard of living. This standard generally means that a person working forty hours a week should be able to afford a specified quality or quantity of housing, food, utilities, transport, health care, and recreation.

Quote:

Critics argue that basic economic theory suggests a mandated minimum price for labor, a "living wage," is harmful to low-wage workers and increases unemployment. Artificially fixing a price for labor above the market price causes a decrease in the overall demand for labor, leading to increased unemployment and a deadweight loss. Workers who lose their jobs would not receive the living wage. Furthermore, such wage increases can cause inflation, increasing the cost of living and decreasing the relative buying power of the living wage, which leaves the minimum wage earner no better off.

Care to find the "Living wage" in your area? Link
For example, Elverson PA - Annual Before Tax Income $20,009

sugarpop · 04-22-2009, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicman

Affording the bare necessities IS exactly what a living wage is.

Care to find the "Living wage" in your area? Link
For example, Elverson PA - Annual Before Tax Income $20,009

That chart is ridiculous. $237 for a month of food, for one adult? That is really laughable, unless you eat at mcDonalds every day. And that will make you sick. And $93 for medical for one adult? What planet are they living on? bah.

04-21-2009, 01:36 AM	#436
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	oops... 35%. me not goodly with numbers. Believe it or not bruce I'm still a working people. So is my wife. So are my parents. Come to think of it, just about every damn person I know is a working person. Because I own my company I get the distinct pleasure of paying an additional 7.5% tax on my earnings before my normal taxes are even calculated. x2 was referring to the spouse. If there is no spouse then this person should be looking for a roommate. and if they can't get 40 hours at that job they need to look for another job. and if minimum wage doesn't provide what they want (and it doesn't) they should be looking for ways to get a job that pays more. education, hard work, and desire are powerful when combined. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

04-21-2009, 01:50 AM	#437
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Spouse? Working spouse? That's a neat trick, two full time jobs when you're living in the park. Yes education and good clothes do wonders, but both are pretty tough on $170 a week, in addition to living the good life. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

04-21-2009, 12:10 PM	#438
classicman barely disguised asshole, keeper of all that is holy. Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 23,401	$7.15 is the min in PA FWIW - as you were. You can survive, but no one is paying that little anyway - least around these parts. __________________ "like strapping a pillow on a bull in a china shop" Bullitt

04-21-2009, 12:56 PM	#439
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	Bruce, if there is a spouse, they should also be working to pay for the apartment. If there isn't a spouse then a roommate still cuts rent in half. I am not saying these are desirable living conditions, only that they are livable. The reality is minimum wage sucks. It is supposed to be the very basement of what can be paid and logically it is crappy. The truth is that nobody is a slave to that job though. You can sit there and think it is easy to say because I'm not there, but that is the point - I've been there and I'm not anymore. I struggled my way up the chain and I know for a fact anyone can do it. I get tired of hearing about people being trapped. It is bullshit. People are only trapped by their own decisions. It may be extremely difficult, but it is 100% possible to work your way up the economic ladder. You don't need college degrees and tailored suits to get a job paying more than minimum. You need to have the desire to do whatever it takes, even if it is a job you well and truly hate, to move up. That is it. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

04-21-2009, 01:04 PM	#441
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	A college education certainly does make it easier. The great thing is that anyone who wants it bad enough can get a degree too. BUT if they don't want to get a degree they certainly are not limited to janitorial jobs for life. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

04-21-2009, 02:13 PM	#442
Bullitt This is a fully functional babe lair Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Akron, OH Posts: 2,324	Yessir. My mom worked three jobs while taking classes to put herself through nursing school in her early 20's. Didn't own her first car till she was 24; 1978. Failed a chemistry class, sucked it up and retook the course the next semester seeking any available tutoring, even hounding the professor after class to make sure she knew her stuff right this time. She's told me and my brother more than once about the days when all she could afford was a pack of hotdogs for lunch, had to skip breakfast couldn't afford it. I admire my parents for their willingness and determination to not let their circumstances get the best of them. A person may not be able to choose what situation he finds himself in, but can always choose how he will respond to that situation. Read a great book this semester called "Man's Search for Meaning" by Viktor Frankl in which he details his life surviving concentration camps for 3 years. Best passage out of the whole book: "We who lived in concentration camps can remember the men who walked through the huts comforting others, giving away their last piece of bread. They may have been few in number, but they offer sufficient proof that everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms—to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one's own way." __________________ Kiss my white Irish ass.

04-21-2009, 06:06 PM	#443
TheMercenary “Hypocrisy: prejudice with a halo” Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Savannah, Georgia Posts: 21,393	I currently work between four and five jobs to get my family ahead. __________________ Anyone but the this most fuked up President in History in 2012!

04-21-2009, 06:52 PM	#446
sugarpop Professor Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: the edge of the abyss Posts: 1,947	Bullshit. You act like I think people flipping burgers should make what doctors make. I don't. You keep thinking my arguments are about me not having billions of dollars. It's not. You know me. You know money isn't that important to me. The world is, however, and the people at the very top are robbing everyone else, and that includes you. I don't know why you want to keep it that way.

04-21-2009, 06:55 PM	#447
TheMercenary “Hypocrisy: prejudice with a halo” Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Savannah, Georgia Posts: 21,393	No, I am just saying if you are not happy with your station in life dig deeper and figure out a way out of your personal hell. But it is not my problem and I should not have to pay for your exodus. __________________ Anyone but the this most fuked up President in History in 2012!

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