Time to judge the capitalist pig - Page 3

mrnoodle · 06-15-2005, 04:35 PM

Hey, that's what probation's for. Outline your problems with her performance (in the presence of HR), and say she has 90 days to rectify the situation. If she fails to do so, you can assume that she is resigning from her position. You will lose the respect of your GOOD employees if you let one bad apple pwn you in front of them.

Undertoad · 06-15-2005, 04:47 PM

i would make a mistake like the flower card

Troubleshooter · 06-15-2005, 05:28 PM

You aren't pushing her out. You are simply fulfilling your portion of the agreement between employer and employee. She agreed to meet certain standards to remain employed. She is failing in that so you are able to fulfill your commitment to the company by canning her.

And I said it was a waffle, not pancakes.

lookout123 · 06-15-2005, 05:30 PM

there is a difference between (by accident) opening someone's package, and being nosy and opening the package then opening the card, then dialing the phone, then reading the card into someone's voice mail.

mr noodle, i don't have any other employees. that is why i came to this firm. it is me and my assistant. that is why it is so important that we both be on the same page.

Clodfobble · 06-15-2005, 06:18 PM

If there are tasks she's refusing to do, could you perhaps hire someone young (but up-and-coming, talented) and tell her that this young woman is her assistant--and then over the next two months give this younger woman all her tasks, and then when she is doing NOTHING, then could you fire her?

lookout123 · 06-15-2005, 07:21 PM

in theory, yes, but then i would be paying two salaries, benefits, etc. while my business is doing well, i'm not in a position to do that right now.

tw · 06-15-2005, 07:41 PM

A 6% raise by itself and compared to others in the economy is massive. Most friends are offering their employees about 1% and never more than 2%. BTW inflation is running at what - 2%?

The question cannot be answered in terms of percent alone. Many bosses want to determine raise only in terms of previous pay. Some people are underpaid and eventually learn it. If the inequity is not corrected, a firm will have both an adversarial employee and then lose talent. High performance employees are often ones first brought in with low or moderate pay. They expect a raise to compensate for the job they are performing better than their peers - especially after learning how much others are getting paid and discovering how much better they were than they first thought.

IOW it is not reasonable to answer this question without information on peer performance and pay. But too often, bosses don't want to measure an employee to what others are doing. They want to restrict the analysis only to what the employee was paid previously.

kerosene · 06-15-2005, 07:47 PM

Here's an idea:

1. Write up a list of policies you think slant out of her favor, for example, "In an effort to focus on our business goals, Jimbob Company expects all employees to spend no more than 30 minutes on personal telephone calls and make no more than 3 personal email correspondences each day with a possible exception of emergencies. Neglecting this policy is grounds for disciplinary action and may result in termination."

2. Try to come up with policies that are easy to prove were broken.

3. Print a copy for you and for her and ask her to sign both. It will have to be a condition of continued employment, or you have insubordination.

4. Watch her like a hawk. Write her up for everything. Make her become the problem that she is, instead of the other way around. IMHO you have done everything you can to keep her, but she insists that she deserves better. If she really feels that way, knock her down a few pegs. She will realize that some of the things she is doing are getting on your nerves and won't be tolerated anymore.

I would have killed for a job like that when I was looking. Even just admin work would have been nice for a small corporation and a decent boss.

lookout123 · 06-15-2005, 08:00 PM

they are salaried positions in the mid to upper $20's. not exciting but they are hired with no experience. as i said, pay raises are once a year based upon their performance and relationship with their broker. the broker may or may not share their bonuses withthe assistant. there are a few assistants making 6 figures. many making $50K+. it is based on the size of the brokers bonus, obviously.

tw, what other people make is irrelevant. beginning salary is based on skills and local market conditions. she can go elsewhere if she believes she can find abetter deal. if an employee agrees to do a job for $X and the next year they are expected to do the same job for $X + 6%, that is the employee's decision. if the person wants to leave the business owner has to decide if keeping that employee is worth more money - often they are, in this case, definitely not.

wolf · 06-16-2005, 12:22 AM

I accept a lot of flowers. Every delivery like that comes through my department.

We don't even tell the recipient that we have flowers for them, just tell them to come down to intake.

Reading the card is a MAJOR trust violation, IMHO. Not strictly against company policy, obviously, but not a good thing.

cowhead · 06-16-2005, 12:36 AM

HAH! any percent is god in foodservice even if you are damn good and make them money eventually they will replace you with someone cheaper.. hey, you're in Austin.. I can make some calls and get you someone worth the trouble.

Clodfobble · 06-16-2005, 08:04 AM

Lookout's in Arizona, not Austin.

xoxoxoBruce · 06-18-2005, 12:17 AM

Make her eat the mushrooms.

capnhowdy · 06-28-2005, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Make her eat the mushrooms.

You NEVER cease to crack me up.
Just when you thought it was safe to be serious..........

lookout123 · 07-14-2005, 02:07 PM

update:

shortly after the last post Jimbob sat clementine down for a conference call with the HR people. when she figured out what was going on she refused to walk into the office demanding that i hang up the call and discuss this with just her, no HR involved. i pressed the speakerphone button so they could hear and she promptly shut up and sat down.

i presented very well documented inadequacies that ended up costing me and the business a chunk of change and some clients' trust. she didn't dispute any of the facts whatsoever but kept returning to the "you are just picking on me and i don't know why" bit. the call got ugly on her part with accusations, etc. in each case i looked at my notes and said - "do you mean on X date, when i asked you to do ____ and it didn't get done? is that the event you are talking about?" and then she would attack the HR people for always siding with the broker. at which point, her representative on the call(who happens to be THE director of HR), broke in and told her to be quiet, quit interrupting, or she would remove herself from the case so that she could write Clem up for insubordination herself.

in the end, Clem received a written warning. she was all tears and drama and demanded to know what i wanted from her. my response was that:

A) you will listen, learn, and comply and become a VERY good assistant
B) you will decide you can't do the job and resign
C) you will refuse to comply and we will continue the process through termination.

Clem was and is not a happy camper.

Clem is also unhappy because i removed her flex time schedule privileges due to abuse and a lack of confidence that she is working when i'm not here. she is working the same number of hours, but it is now an 8-4:30 sched. with mandatory 1/2 hour lunch. (she stays half an hour later now, but she had the option)
yesterday, at 2 she tells me that i have to change the schedule because there isn't enough work to justify keeping her an extra 1/2 hour. i just stared at her and reminded her that she is working the same number of hours as before. she made crack that the previous 2 broker's had tried to change her hours and she kept her schedule the same anyway. she kept pushing and pushing and pushing so i gave her the freedom to choose.
A) find a way to stay busy for the whole day (learning new skills, organizing, working on marketing, etc.)
B) cut her hours down to 35 so that she doesn't get bored.

then i told her to organize the product literature area to give her something to do - a task she has been saying she would do for a month. of course, she went home without doing it.
Yep, HR agreed with me - that was insubordination. i expect another conference call with HR tomorrow.

i no longer feel bad at all. she is pushing herself right out the door.

06-15-2005, 04:35 PM	#31
mrnoodle bent Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: under the weather Posts: 2,656	Hey, that's what probation's for. Outline your problems with her performance (in the presence of HR), and say she has 90 days to rectify the situation. If she fails to do so, you can assume that she is resigning from her position. You will lose the respect of your GOOD employees if you let one bad apple pwn you in front of them. __________________ Sìn a nall na cuaranan sin. -- Cha mhór is fheairrde thu iad, tha iad coltach ri cat air a dhathadh

06-15-2005, 05:28 PM	#33
Troubleshooter The urban Jane Goodall Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 3,012	You aren't pushing her out. You are simply fulfilling your portion of the agreement between employer and employee. She agreed to meet certain standards to remain employed. She is failing in that so you are able to fulfill your commitment to the company by canning her. And I said it was a waffle, not pancakes. __________________ I have gained this from philosophy: that I do without being commanded what others do only from fear of the law. - Aristotle

06-15-2005, 05:30 PM	#34
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	there is a difference between (by accident) opening someone's package, and being nosy and opening the package then opening the card, then dialing the phone, then reading the card into someone's voice mail. mr noodle, i don't have any other employees. that is why i came to this firm. it is me and my assistant. that is why it is so important that we both be on the same page. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

06-15-2005, 07:21 PM	#36
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	in theory, yes, but then i would be paying two salaries, benefits, etc. while my business is doing well, i'm not in a position to do that right now. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

06-15-2005, 08:00 PM	#39
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	they are salaried positions in the mid to upper $20's. not exciting but they are hired with no experience. as i said, pay raises are once a year based upon their performance and relationship with their broker. the broker may or may not share their bonuses withthe assistant. there are a few assistants making 6 figures. many making $50K+. it is based on the size of the brokers bonus, obviously. tw, what other people make is irrelevant. beginning salary is based on skills and local market conditions. she can go elsewhere if she believes she can find abetter deal. if an employee agrees to do a job for $X and the next year they are expected to do the same job for $X + 6%, that is the employee's decision. if the person wants to leave the business owner has to decide if keeping that employee is worth more money - often they are, in this case, definitely not. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

06-15-2005, 04:47 PM	#32
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	i would make a mistake like the flower card

06-15-2005, 06:18 PM	#35
Clodfobble UNDER CONDITIONAL MITIGATION Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 20,012	If there are tasks she's refusing to do, could you perhaps hire someone young (but up-and-coming, talented) and tell her that this young woman is her assistant--and then over the next two months give this younger woman all her tasks, and then when she is doing NOTHING, then could you fire her?

06-15-2005, 07:41 PM	#37
tw Read? I only know how to write. Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 11,933	A 6% raise by itself and compared to others in the economy is massive. Most friends are offering their employees about 1% and never more than 2%. BTW inflation is running at what - 2%? The question cannot be answered in terms of percent alone. Many bosses want to determine raise only in terms of previous pay. Some people are underpaid and eventually learn it. If the inequity is not corrected, a firm will have both an adversarial employee and then lose talent. High performance employees are often ones first brought in with low or moderate pay. They expect a raise to compensate for the job they are performing better than their peers - especially after learning how much others are getting paid and discovering how much better they were than they first thought. IOW it is not reasonable to answer this question without information on peer performance and pay. But too often, bosses don't want to measure an employee to what others are doing. They want to restrict the analysis only to what the employee was paid previously.

06-15-2005, 07:47 PM	#38
kerosene Touring the facilities Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The plains of Colorado Posts: 3,476	Here's an idea: 1. Write up a list of policies you think slant out of her favor, for example, "In an effort to focus on our business goals, Jimbob Company expects all employees to spend no more than 30 minutes on personal telephone calls and make no more than 3 personal email correspondences each day with a possible exception of emergencies. Neglecting this policy is grounds for disciplinary action and may result in termination." 2. Try to come up with policies that are easy to prove were broken. 3. Print a copy for you and for her and ask her to sign both. It will have to be a condition of continued employment, or you have insubordination. 4. Watch her like a hawk. Write her up for everything. Make her become the problem that she is, instead of the other way around. IMHO you have done everything you can to keep her, but she insists that she deserves better. If she really feels that way, knock her down a few pegs. She will realize that some of the things she is doing are getting on your nerves and won't be tolerated anymore. I would have killed for a job like that when I was looking. Even just admin work would have been nice for a small corporation and a decent boss.

06-16-2005, 12:22 AM	#40
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	I accept a lot of flowers. Every delivery like that comes through my department. We don't even tell the recipient that we have flowers for them, just tell them to come down to intake. Reading the card is a MAJOR trust violation, IMHO. Not strictly against company policy, obviously, but not a good thing. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

06-16-2005, 12:36 AM	#41
cowhead halve your cake and eat it too. Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Georgia.. by way of Lawrence Kansas Posts: 1,359	HAH! any percent is god in foodservice even if you are damn good and make them money eventually they will replace you with someone cheaper.. hey, you're in Austin.. I can make some calls and get you someone worth the trouble. __________________ no my child.. this is not my desire..I'm digging for fire.

06-16-2005, 08:04 AM	#42
Clodfobble UNDER CONDITIONAL MITIGATION Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 20,012	Lookout's in Arizona, not Austin.

06-18-2005, 12:17 AM	#43
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Make her eat the mushrooms. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

07-14-2005, 02:07 PM	#45
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	update: shortly after the last post Jimbob sat clementine down for a conference call with the HR people. when she figured out what was going on she refused to walk into the office demanding that i hang up the call and discuss this with just her, no HR involved. i pressed the speakerphone button so they could hear and she promptly shut up and sat down. i presented very well documented inadequacies that ended up costing me and the business a chunk of change and some clients' trust. she didn't dispute any of the facts whatsoever but kept returning to the "you are just picking on me and i don't know why" bit. the call got ugly on her part with accusations, etc. in each case i looked at my notes and said - "do you mean on X date, when i asked you to do ____ and it didn't get done? is that the event you are talking about?" and then she would attack the HR people for always siding with the broker. at which point, her representative on the call(who happens to be THE director of HR), broke in and told her to be quiet, quit interrupting, or she would remove herself from the case so that she could write Clem up for insubordination herself. in the end, Clem received a written warning. she was all tears and drama and demanded to know what i wanted from her. my response was that: A) you will listen, learn, and comply and become a VERY good assistant B) you will decide you can't do the job and resign C) you will refuse to comply and we will continue the process through termination. Clem was and is not a happy camper. Clem is also unhappy because i removed her flex time schedule privileges due to abuse and a lack of confidence that she is working when i'm not here. she is working the same number of hours, but it is now an 8-4:30 sched. with mandatory 1/2 hour lunch. (she stays half an hour later now, but she had the option) yesterday, at 2 she tells me that i have to change the schedule because there isn't enough work to justify keeping her an extra 1/2 hour. i just stared at her and reminded her that she is working the same number of hours as before. she made crack that the previous 2 broker's had tried to change her hours and she kept her schedule the same anyway. she kept pushing and pushing and pushing so i gave her the freedom to choose. A) find a way to stay busy for the whole day (learning new skills, organizing, working on marketing, etc.) B) cut her hours down to 35 so that she doesn't get bored. then i told her to organize the product literature area to give her something to do - a task she has been saying she would do for a month. of course, she went home without doing it. Yep, HR agreed with me - that was insubordination. i expect another conference call with HR tomorrow. i no longer feel bad at all. she is pushing herself right out the door. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin Last edited by lookout123; 07-15-2005 at 12:46 AM.

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