MLM = morons losing money - Page 3

Happy Monkey · 03-14-2005, 09:59 AM

One person's loss is usually another person's gain, but it is also possible for a transaction to be a loss or a gain for both parties, because different people value goods differently, depending on their needs.

The majority of MLMs, however, are run in such a way that they encourage the gain-loss style transaction, in favor of the people at the top.

Catwoman · 03-14-2005, 10:03 AM

Yes, why can't we just go back to exchanging sheep?

Happy Monkey · 03-14-2005, 10:07 AM

Was that a response to my post?

If so, you do realize that different people can value goods and services differently in dollar values, don't you? There are items that I would be willing to spend $20 on that you would only buy if the price was $10.

Catwoman · 03-14-2005, 10:14 AM

Not really I wrote that in between learning online german and hiding from my boss. I apologise. Yes I know but you could swap two sheep for three cows, or a blow job for a three course meal. I mean you earn $70 dollars a day for your labour time which you spend on holidays, food, cars etc. Why not do a straight swap - cut out the middle man?

mrnoodle · 03-14-2005, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catwoman

By defaming MLM's you are at odds with business, yes money-making, society, means that one persons loss is another persons gain, whether you call it TNT or Tupperware.

The emphasis of MLMs is on making money from the pyramid, not selling product. The people on the bottom did not get into it to buy the product, they got into it to make money from the pyramid. They just don't have enough gullible friends to make it worth their while.

Yes, retail goods are marked up by 40-300%, but you're paying fair market value, and know ahead of time what you're getting, usually. With MLM, not only is the product overvalued, but it's only there to give a veneer of respectability to what is essentially a con game.

glatt · 03-14-2005, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catwoman

you could swap two sheep for three cows, or a blow job for a three course meal. I mean you earn $70 dollars a day for your labour time which you spend on holidays, food, cars etc. Why not do a straight swap - cut out the middle man?

Because money is more convenient than bartering.

Catwoman · 03-14-2005, 10:27 AM

Is it? Who determines value? How can you base real living on something intangible? What is the price of a can of beans?

Beestie · 03-14-2005, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catwoman

By defaming MLM's you are at odds with business, yes money-making, society, means that one persons loss is another persons gain, whether you call it TNT or Tupperware.

Guess again.

With MLM, there is no limit to the number of participants - a willing purchaser can always "buy one." There is no such thing as "we can't sell you one because we don't have any more." Also note that it is entirely possible to create an entire MLM pyramid without any participant selling any of the products the MLM is actually proposing to sell. Now, go back to your econ 101 textbook and answer one simple question for me. What is the price (economic value) of a commodity for which there is an infinite supply?

ZERO.

Therefore, an infinite number of MLM membership sales would increase the economy of the system containing the transactions by exactly ZERO. Let's not confuse the economic quackery that is MLM with the infinitely more dignified, GNP increasing Tupperware party.

glatt · 03-14-2005, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catwoman

Is it? Who determines value? How can you base real living on something intangible? What is the price of a can of beans?

I determine the value. I won't work for a wage unless I approve of it. I won't buy a product unless I like the price.

Money makes it much easier to track. I can say that 200 cans of beans is equal to a sheep, but what do I do if I don't want 200 cans of beans? It's a lot easier to hand over a dollar bill for a can of beans instead of working out how to divide a sheep.

Catwoman · 03-14-2005, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beestie

What is the price (economic value) of a commodity for which there is an infinite supply?

Read first rule of economics: Something is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it. People are stupid. People buy identities, not products. The tangible object is worthless (with the exception of houses etc.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by glatt

I determine the value. I won't work for a wage unless I approve of it. I won't buy a product unless I like the price.

That's all very well but your choice is limited to what you are offered. So, who determines the value?

Happy Monkey · 03-14-2005, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catwoman

Why not do a straight swap - cut out the middle man?

Because the people you want stuff from aren't necessarily the people who want what you've got.

glatt · 03-14-2005, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catwoman

That's all very well but your choice is limited to what you are offered. So, who determines the value?

I'll let you answer yourself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catwoman

Read first rule of economics: Something is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it.

Which means I, as a consumer, decide what something is worth.

Guyute · 03-14-2005, 08:40 PM

Whether you pay a buck a pill, or a buck a box, you pay a buck for whatever you think is worth that buck. So if thousands of people worldwide buy products from MLM's, at what point is the assertion that they don't work become a glaring fallicy? Is it not true that free-market forces are the great leveler of the playing field? Amway did over $8 billion in sales in 1996. Certainly there are people who do not believe that their products are that much better than the Sand and Salt you buy at Wal-Mart or the local Supermarket. This is evidenced by the horrendous gross sales generated by Wal-Mart. But the reality is that there have to be thousands who do, because no company can perpetuate a lie for OVER 40 YEARS (except the National Enquirer). I only say Away because that is where the bulk of my experience is. There are other successful MLM's that must provide adequate value or eventually they would disappear. We can argue about the veracity of one business style over another until the cows come home (or the sheep come home that I traded a blowjob for- yuckkkk), but in a relatively free-market economy such as Japan and Europe, and to some extent the USA and Canada (all economic regions where Amway is thriving, but I can't speak for other MLM's) if a company sells products or services that are inherently overpriced EVENTUALLY they go bankrupt, right? Or they find another product that sells.

I also become very cynical when I see constant replies about the legitimacy of the MLM model. Do you not think that the CEO of HP makes more than the guy on the street humping printers to computer stores? Do you not believe that the chairman of Toyota makes more than the shyster/salesman selling Echo's to everybody who walks in? Is the chairman's slary not paid by the sales generated by the lowly salesman? Do you think that the mechanic at the local body shop makes more than the owner? Keeping with the Wal-Mart theme, do you think the Walton family does not make money on the sales generated by opening stores and paying staff just enough to live? So this drivel about upline reaming downline is just another case of the "outside" world distorting facts to denegrate something they themselves co-operate in every day. My current boss makes a bonus if my branch hits a monthly sales target, but I don't even get a thanks. Does this not fit that concept??? If you don't like the fact that someone higher than you makes more money than you, I guess you'll have to open your own biz, or go live on an island and spear fish to live.

Catwoman · 03-15-2005, 04:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glatt

I'll let you answer yourself...Which means I, as a consumer, decide what something is worth.

No. I'll say it again. You are limited to what you are offered. Yes, you decide the price of beans. But you do not choose beans. Why does a company put baked beans on the market instead of, say, tinned cattlefish? Or ground peanuts? Who decides? Isn't what we consume the result of a board-level brainstorm? Market research is not research. It is limited to simple choices: do you prefer almonds or peanuts. There's no mention of walnuts. Do you see? We don't decide the value because we are limited. We can only choose from what is offered. Thus, if value is determined by afore-mentioned board meeting (profiteers), there is no consequential difference between a well-established plc and a badly run mlm.

Undertoad · 03-15-2005, 07:49 AM

Why does a company put baked beans on the market instead of, say, tinned cattlefish? Or ground peanuts?

I don't know how it is in England any more, but in the US that decision starts with a ton of research and/or actual market data. It then goes to retail buyers who attempt to understand their consumers and what they will or won't buy and how it can be sold. If an item goes on the shelf and doesn't move, that will be recognized with the assistance of real-time inventory and sales data, and it will be replaced within a quarter.

And like Mr Dent finding that the Nutrimatic machine has produced a fluid exactly unlike tea, the entire system has produced a supermarket where I am routinely offended by 98% of the shelf contents.

03-14-2005, 09:59 AM	#31
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	One person's loss is usually another person's gain, but it is also possible for a transaction to be a loss or a gain for both parties, because different people value goods differently, depending on their needs. The majority of MLMs, however, are run in such a way that they encourage the gain-loss style transaction, in favor of the people at the top. __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

03-14-2005, 10:03 AM	#32
Catwoman stalking a Tom Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: on the edge of the english channel Posts: 1,000	Yes, why can't we just go back to exchanging sheep? __________________ I've decided I'm not going to have a signature anymore.

03-14-2005, 10:07 AM	#33
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	Was that a response to my post? If so, you do realize that different people can value goods and services differently in dollar values, don't you? There are items that I would be willing to spend $20 on that you would only buy if the price was $10. __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

03-14-2005, 10:14 AM	#34
Catwoman stalking a Tom Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: on the edge of the english channel Posts: 1,000	Not really I wrote that in between learning online german and hiding from my boss. I apologise. Yes I know but you could swap two sheep for three cows, or a blow job for a three course meal. I mean you earn $70 dollars a day for your labour time which you spend on holidays, food, cars etc. Why not do a straight swap - cut out the middle man? __________________ I've decided I'm not going to have a signature anymore.

03-14-2005, 10:27 AM	#37
Catwoman stalking a Tom Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: on the edge of the english channel Posts: 1,000	Is it? Who determines value? How can you base real living on something intangible? What is the price of a can of beans? __________________ I've decided I'm not going to have a signature anymore.

03-14-2005, 08:40 PM	#43
Guyute Gamehenge Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Halifax, NS Posts: 168	Whether you pay a buck a pill, or a buck a box, you pay a buck for whatever you think is worth that buck. So if thousands of people worldwide buy products from MLM's, at what point is the assertion that they don't work become a glaring fallicy? Is it not true that free-market forces are the great leveler of the playing field? Amway did over $8 billion in sales in 1996. Certainly there are people who do not believe that their products are that much better than the Sand and Salt you buy at Wal-Mart or the local Supermarket. This is evidenced by the horrendous gross sales generated by Wal-Mart. But the reality is that there have to be thousands who do, because no company can perpetuate a lie for OVER 40 YEARS (except the National Enquirer). I only say Away because that is where the bulk of my experience is. There are other successful MLM's that must provide adequate value or eventually they would disappear. We can argue about the veracity of one business style over another until the cows come home (or the sheep come home that I traded a blowjob for- yuckkkk), but in a relatively free-market economy such as Japan and Europe, and to some extent the USA and Canada (all economic regions where Amway is thriving, but I can't speak for other MLM's) if a company sells products or services that are inherently overpriced EVENTUALLY they go bankrupt, right? Or they find another product that sells. I also become very cynical when I see constant replies about the legitimacy of the MLM model. Do you not think that the CEO of HP makes more than the guy on the street humping printers to computer stores? Do you not believe that the chairman of Toyota makes more than the shyster/salesman selling Echo's to everybody who walks in? Is the chairman's slary not paid by the sales generated by the lowly salesman? Do you think that the mechanic at the local body shop makes more than the owner? Keeping with the Wal-Mart theme, do you think the Walton family does not make money on the sales generated by opening stores and paying staff just enough to live? So this drivel about upline reaming downline is just another case of the "outside" world distorting facts to denegrate something they themselves co-operate in every day. My current boss makes a bonus if my branch hits a monthly sales target, but I don't even get a thanks. Does this not fit that concept??? If you don't like the fact that someone higher than you makes more money than you, I guess you'll have to open your own biz, or go live on an island and spear fish to live. __________________ It's Really Plain and Easy To See, The Family grows like fungus on a tree.

03-15-2005, 07:49 AM	#45
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Why does a company put baked beans on the market instead of, say, tinned cattlefish? Or ground peanuts? I don't know how it is in England any more, but in the US that decision starts with a ton of research and/or actual market data. It then goes to retail buyers who attempt to understand their consumers and what they will or won't buy and how it can be sold. If an item goes on the shelf and doesn't move, that will be recognized with the assistance of real-time inventory and sales data, and it will be replaced within a quarter. And like Mr Dent finding that the Nutrimatic machine has produced a fluid exactly unlike tea, the entire system has produced a supermarket where I am routinely offended by 98% of the shelf contents.

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