John Kerry flips the bird - Page 3

glatt · 06-04-2004, 09:44 AM

Kerry gets that treatment because he is a frontrunner for President.

Senators get security too, but not at that level.

Kitsune · 06-04-2004, 09:54 AM

That makes sense, Glatt. I assume not every candidate gets that kind of security, though. You must already hold an office and be the front runner?

wolf · 06-04-2004, 10:00 AM

I think the secret service assigns a detail to any major presidential candidate (i.e., not the wackjob from the Natural Law Party), but they have the option to decline.

Think of it as the "Bobby Kennedy Rule".

Beestie · 06-04-2004, 10:19 AM

Originally posted by richlevy

Quote:

Well, one advantage the President has over Kerry is that he can pick safe venues. The Secret Service can keep protesters over 100 yards away. This means he can cocoon himself with people who agree with them and only be exposed to the %40 of the public who don't vocally disagree with him.

Originally posted by glatt

Quote:

Kerry gets that treatment [the Secret Service keeping protestors 100 yards away] because he is a frontrunner for President.

So you are saying that richlevy is incorrect - that Kerry is just as afraid to confront his critics as richlevy suggests Bush is. Just wondering.

Kitsune · 06-04-2004, 10:33 AM

that Kerry is just as afraid to confront his critics as richlevy suggests Bush is.

This might be true, but I'd have to say that Bush is more afraid ever since "Free Speech Zones" were implemented with his blessing. 100 yards back? Try several city blocks.

Beestie · 06-04-2004, 10:47 AM

Originally posted by Kitsune

Quote:

that Kerry is just as afraid to confront his critics as richlevy suggests Bush is.

This might be true, but I'd have to say that Bush is more afraid ever since "Free Speech Zones" were implemented with his blessing. 100 yards back? Try several city blocks.

I think free-speech zones are an insult to the American way and lost a lot of respect for Chicken George when he implemented them. If Kerry wants to do the same thing then he can lose respect also. I think Kerry has more balls than Bush when it comes to slugging it out on the debate floor so I find it very curious that he would implement the same strategy.

Just to be clear, I'm not a fan of either candidate - I'm still pissed McCain lost in South Carolina.

glatt · 06-04-2004, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Beestie
Originally posted by richlevy So you are saying that richlevy is incorrect - that Kerry is just as afraid to confront his critics as richlevy suggests Bush is. Just wondering.

I was actually commenting more on what the Secret Service does for various office holders.

But you raise a good question. I have the impression that Bush avoids protestors much more than Kerry does, but I may be completely wrong. The Secret Service doesn't typically talk about how it does security, so there isn't much information out there about whether the "free speech zones" are by order of the President or by order of the Secret Service. The president's personality certainly plays into the level of security provided to them. Clinton loved contact with the public, so he was always trying to break down those security barriers, much to the chagrin of the agents protecting him. Bush seems to hate public contact, and I think the Secret Service is all to willing to completely isolate him from the public. It makes their job easier.

I think the president has to actively tell the Secret Service to back off, and Bush doesn't do that at all. He hides behind them.

With the Kerry incident, I imagine (and am totally guessing because I haven't read anything about this incident) that the Secret Service went into a spot that already had people in there. Cordoned off the area, so nobody could leave or enter, and then Kerry showed up. The Vietnam vet was probably already there when they arrived.

warch · 06-04-2004, 11:15 AM

The Vietnam Vet, Sampley is well known for his publicity stunts. He has used POW and MIA families for his own monetary gain and lost an ugly lawsuit with other vets, led by McCain and Kerry, for illegally setting up as a vendor at a MIA "memorial" on park grounds. He picketted against Maya Lin's design because she was Asian, then, seeing the popularity, sets up shop to sell knick knacks. He's staged outrageous "protests" one involving spilling oil on a road so that cars would lose control- he ran into the law on that one too. Thats only a bit of his shit. He makes his money. He has his website where you can buy his goods. He is the slime master that attacked McCain in South Carolina, ironically in the name of POWs...he alleged McCain was a spy and didnt really suffer...enough. he was a "Manchurian Candidate". (I guess he fancies himself Frank Sinatra) Oh brother. He also slandered McCain's family. I'm not outraged that this vet, who was never a POW but married the widow of one briefly to enable him to claim family status, was flipped the bird. He earned that at least. This was an other ugly stunt. He was there to sell Hanoi John T shirts and bumper stickers.

McCain's statement:
"I strongly caution reporters who may be contacted by or are interested in Mr. Ted Sampley and the various organizations he claims to represent, and his opinions on the subject of Senator Kerry, or any subject for that matter, to investigate thoroughly Mr. Sampley's background and history of spreading outrageous slander and other disreputable behavior before inadvertently lending him or his allegations any credibility.

I am well familiar with Mr. Sampley, and I know him to be one of the most despicable people I have ever had the misfortune to encounter. I consider him a fraud who preys on the hopes of family members of missing servicemen for his own profit. He is dishonorable, an enemy of the truth, and despite his claims, he does not speak for or represent the views of all but a few veterans. The many veterans I know would think it a disgrace to be considered a comrade or supporter of Ted Sampley."

lookout123 · 06-04-2004, 12:27 PM

thanks for the quote warch. that sheds some light on how it happened. the guy more than likely did deserve to get hauled out behind a shed by a kerry supporter for some attitude adjustment. but, i'm still not sure what it says about the candidate to get flustered enough that he is willing to stoop to that level. he is running for the presidency, effectively interviewing for a job he desperately wants. i wouldn't even do that in a meeting of junior partners in the firm i am with.

xoxoxoBruce · 06-04-2004, 12:32 PM

Quote:

i wouldn't even do that in a meeting of junior partners in the firm i am with.

Why not? It's a very effective way to convey displeasure/distain quickly, from a distance.

lookout123 · 06-04-2004, 01:08 PM

you're right bruce. but it's not the best way to showcase your intellectual capabilities. i feel like a real dumbass about 2 seconds after i flash it when i'm cut off by someone in traffic, and that is a situation where i am not trying to impress anyone.

xoxoxoBruce · 06-04-2004, 01:44 PM

Bad attitude. You should give the "bird" it's due. It's quick, effective, and transcends language, age and social status. It's a very valuable tool. Just 'cause you got couth, don't make Spaghettios bad.

lookout123 · 06-04-2004, 02:02 PM

i love spaghettio's - my wife won't buy them - she says i need to grow up and eat real food. so i just hold my breath and stomp my feet until 1) i pass out 2) she gives in.

don't tell me to grow up.... grumblegrumblegrumble.

wolf · 06-04-2004, 02:02 PM

You do get the ones with the hot dogs, right?

lookout123 · 06-04-2004, 02:05 PM

are you kidding? i would have to do more than hold my breath, i may have to lie down on the grocery store's floor and scream profanities to get that.

06-04-2004, 10:00 AM	#3
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	I think the secret service assigns a detail to any major presidential candidate (i.e., not the wackjob from the Natural Law Party), but they have the option to decline. Think of it as the "Bobby Kennedy Rule". __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

06-04-2004, 12:27 PM	#9
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	thanks for the quote warch. that sheds some light on how it happened. the guy more than likely did deserve to get hauled out behind a shed by a kerry supporter for some attitude adjustment. but, i'm still not sure what it says about the candidate to get flustered enough that he is willing to stoop to that level. he is running for the presidency, effectively interviewing for a job he desperately wants. i wouldn't even do that in a meeting of junior partners in the firm i am with. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

06-04-2004, 01:08 PM	#11
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	you're right bruce. but it's not the best way to showcase your intellectual capabilities. i feel like a real dumbass about 2 seconds after i flash it when i'm cut off by someone in traffic, and that is a situation where i am not trying to impress anyone. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

06-04-2004, 01:44 PM	#12
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Bad attitude. You should give the "bird" it's due. It's quick, effective, and transcends language, age and social status. It's a very valuable tool. Just 'cause you got couth, don't make Spaghettios bad. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

06-04-2004, 02:02 PM	#13
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	i love spaghettio's - my wife won't buy them - she says i need to grow up and eat real food. so i just hold my breath and stomp my feet until 1) i pass out 2) she gives in. don't tell me to grow up.... grumblegrumblegrumble. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

06-04-2004, 09:44 AM	#1
glatt ™ Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 27,717	Kerry gets that treatment because he is a frontrunner for President. Senators get security too, but not at that level.

06-04-2004, 09:54 AM	#2
Kitsune still eats dirt Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 3,031	That makes sense, Glatt. I assume not every candidate gets that kind of security, though. You must already hold an office and be the front runner?

06-04-2004, 10:33 AM	#5
Kitsune still eats dirt Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 3,031	that Kerry is just as afraid to confront his critics as richlevy suggests Bush is. This might be true, but I'd have to say that Bush is more afraid ever since "Free Speech Zones" were implemented with his blessing. 100 yards back? Try several city blocks.

06-04-2004, 11:15 AM	#8
warch lurkin old school Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,796	The Vietnam Vet, Sampley is well known for his publicity stunts. He has used POW and MIA families for his own monetary gain and lost an ugly lawsuit with other vets, led by McCain and Kerry, for illegally setting up as a vendor at a MIA "memorial" on park grounds. He picketted against Maya Lin's design because she was Asian, then, seeing the popularity, sets up shop to sell knick knacks. He's staged outrageous "protests" one involving spilling oil on a road so that cars would lose control- he ran into the law on that one too. Thats only a bit of his shit. He makes his money. He has his website where you can buy his goods. He is the slime master that attacked McCain in South Carolina, ironically in the name of POWs...he alleged McCain was a spy and didnt really suffer...enough. he was a "Manchurian Candidate". (I guess he fancies himself Frank Sinatra) Oh brother. He also slandered McCain's family. I'm not outraged that this vet, who was never a POW but married the widow of one briefly to enable him to claim family status, was flipped the bird. He earned that at least. This was an other ugly stunt. He was there to sell Hanoi John T shirts and bumper stickers. McCain's statement: "I strongly caution reporters who may be contacted by or are interested in Mr. Ted Sampley and the various organizations he claims to represent, and his opinions on the subject of Senator Kerry, or any subject for that matter, to investigate thoroughly Mr. Sampley's background and history of spreading outrageous slander and other disreputable behavior before inadvertently lending him or his allegations any credibility. I am well familiar with Mr. Sampley, and I know him to be one of the most despicable people I have ever had the misfortune to encounter. I consider him a fraud who preys on the hopes of family members of missing servicemen for his own profit. He is dishonorable, an enemy of the truth, and despite his claims, he does not speak for or represent the views of all but a few veterans. The many veterans I know would think it a disgrace to be considered a comrade or supporter of Ted Sampley."

06-04-2004, 02:05 PM	#15
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	are you kidding? i would have to do more than hold my breath, i may have to lie down on the grocery store's floor and scream profanities to get that. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

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