The Slaughter Game - Page 3

be-bop · 05-19-2004, 05:31 PM

Hey Dana C wind yer neck in for God' sake.

This crap could have been settled 10 years ago with the peace accord but no, Arafat and his Hamas gangsters kept pushing and pushing, looks like they've pushed too far now.

Even the IRA eventually sussed that they were never going to win with a continued war and had to change the mindset to trying to obtain a way to get there through dialog.

But peace is no good to the fanatics out there there is no martyrs in peace deals.
And before you hit me with it i don't condone what Sharon has done but if you keep hitting some one you're eventually gonna get slapped back

Radar · 05-19-2004, 05:33 PM

Winning independence through force of arms does NOT justify the Palestinian terrorist cause. Americans fought for their own independence and didn't have to attack another country to get it. The Palestinians are already independent. They are not under Israeli control. They are free to live on their own land without any oppression or control from Israel. The trouble is they keep going onto someone else's honestly obtained land and attacking them without cause, or justification.

The land was owned by the British Empire. While I'm against all forms of imperialism, the fact is it does exist. Before that it was owned by the Ottoman Empire (Turks). Before that it was owned by the Roman Empire. Before that by the Egyptian Empire. And before that there is no recorded history so for all of the recorded history of mankind, there has never been land in that part of the world owned by the Palestinian People. There IS recorded history on the other hand of the nation of Israel. And while they lost that land and no longer owned it, the legal owner returned that land to them and was even generous enough to give some land to create Jordan and to split what was left with some squatters from surrounding countries calling themsleves Palestinians. But rather than be happy that they finally do own some land and live in peace with thier new neighbors, they launched unprovoked attacks against them.

If I own land that I don't live on and you decide to build a house on it when I'm not looking, it doesn't mean you own it.

DanaC · 05-19-2004, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Even the IRA eventually sussed that they were never going to win with a continued war and had to change the mindset to trying to obtain a way to get there through dialog.

Nope they bombed us to the table good and proper. And damn right they should have because we had no business in their land.

Quote:

And before you hit me with it i don't condone what Sharon has done but if you keep hitting some one you're eventually gonna get slapped back

That carries with it the implication that the Israelis endured the palestinian's blows for a while before "eventually" striking back. Thankfully the rest of the world ( that is everyone except Israel and America) can see who the victim really is.

Oh and BeBop wind your dick in before you put somebody's eye out.

DanaC · 05-19-2004, 05:38 PM

RADAR unless I am much mistaken the Roman's brought in Nomadic arabic peoples to that area and encouraged settlement. Those people were the forerunners of the Palestinians.

be-bop · 05-19-2004, 05:42 PM

Oh and BeBop wind your dick in before you put somebody's eye out. [/b][/quote]

Madam this post is no place for dick jokes

DanaC · 05-19-2004, 05:54 PM

Be Bop there is always room for a dick joke!

Yelof raises an interesting comparison in Ireland.

lookout123 · 05-19-2004, 05:56 PM

lots of people out being friendly - making nice with each other today. gotta love it.

elSicomoro · 05-19-2004, 05:57 PM

The UK had only a mandate to administer Palestine...they did not own it.

Yelof · 05-19-2004, 06:00 PM

Quote:

And before that there is no recorded history so for all of the recorded history of mankind, there has never been land in that part of the world owned by the Palestinian People

You ignore what I said about the Irish, before the English started to take us over there was little sense of Irish identity, in fact it was one Irish king Diarmiud mac Murchada who invited the Normans in in order to try to gain edge over another Irish King. By your theory of national rights, why do the Irish have rights and not the Palestinians?

Quote:

Even the IRA eventually sussed that they were never going to win with a continued war and had to change the mindset to trying to obtain a way to get there through dialog.

Quote:

Nope they bombed us to the table good and proper. And damn right they should have because we had no business in their land.

IMO It was a little bit of both but mostly the fact that the moderates on both sides of the conflict were encouraged to start talking and the moderates were able to comunicate the message into language that the extemists could understand. Israel and the pals were in such a position with Rabin and Arafat but it never happened and now there are few moderates in positions of power and those in positions to encourage moderates (i.e. the US) do not.

Clinton is much respected in Ireland for his role in the NI peace process, which although going thru a rocky time at present is still alive at least.

DanaC · 05-19-2004, 06:00 PM

Quote:

The UK had only a mandate to administer Palestine...they did not own it

Ye gads dont remind me. We betrayed their trust as thoroughly as we did the Iraqis

elSicomoro · 05-19-2004, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DanaC
We betrayed their trust

How so?

DanaC · 05-19-2004, 06:13 PM

What I found particularly interesting and moving about the peaceprocess was the way many of the leading lights in the push for peace were the families of those who had died to the cause on both sides. i recall in particular the father of a lad who was killed in the Warrington bombings. I remember this very clearly because I lived not too very far way from Warrington at the time. The child had gone to see what was making the funny clicking sound he had heard coming from a literbin in the centre of town. The bomb wasnt supposed to go off it malfunctioned and blew up in the boys face. Blew his face off and he died in intensive care hours later. I heard his father speak. What a dignified man and what a brave thing to do. Turning his own sorrow into momentum for peace.
On the other side of the water Irish women wereuniting across the sectarian divides to try and speak for peace.

On TV I saw an interview with an Israeli woman whose son wa one of a group of soldiers who had been killed in action and whose bodyparts were being kept by the Palestinian militants as trophies. She was not advocating blood vengeance. She was weeping and imploring her government not to retaliate with further violence As she put it, she didnt want other mothers to feel what she was feeling regardless of whether they were Israeli or Palestinian.

There is hope. 50 years does not make the situation immutable. The zionist right will not always have a stranglehold on the Israeli body politic....Just as neoconservatism in America will not last forever

Yelof · 05-19-2004, 06:14 PM

The Balfour Declaration

A good Irishman always keeps a list of British perfidies handy

elSicomoro · 05-19-2004, 06:15 PM

So, whose trust was betrayed?

05-19-2004, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Radar
Winning independence through force of arms does NOT justify the Palestinian terrorist cause. Americans fought for their own independence and didn't have to attack another country to get it.

Oh? Thomas Jefferson just went up to King George III and gave him a big wet kiss, and tah dah! Independence was granted to the American colonies! How could I have missed out on that fact? I guess I was asleep that day in civics class.

Quote:

Originally posted by Radar
The trouble is they keep going onto someone else's honestly obtained land and attacking them without cause, or justification.

Great Britain signed the ‘Sykes-Picot Agreement’ promising Palestine to the Arabs in return for a revolutionary Arab liberation war against the Ottoman Empire (Turkey). This Arab uprising against the Turks was largely responsible for the Allied Powers victory in the Middle East in WWI. THAT is recorded history. If you want to call the British Empire the legal owner of the land, then they went back on a signed contract with the Arab people. The Palestinians have every right to be upset.

Quote:

Originally posted by Radar
If I own land that I don't live on and you decide to build a house on it when I'm not looking, it doesn't mean you own it.

BINGO! In your own words, big guy!

05-19-2004, 05:31 PM	#31
be-bop Operations Operative Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: scotland/uk Posts: 664	The Slaughter Game Hey Dana C wind yer neck in for God' sake. This crap could have been settled 10 years ago with the peace accord but no, Arafat and his Hamas gangsters kept pushing and pushing, looks like they've pushed too far now. Even the IRA eventually sussed that they were never going to win with a continued war and had to change the mindset to trying to obtain a way to get there through dialog. But peace is no good to the fanatics out there there is no martyrs in peace deals. And before you hit me with it i don't condone what Sharon has done but if you keep hitting some one you're eventually gonna get slapped back

05-19-2004, 05:33 PM	#32
Radar Constitutional Scholar Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Ocala, FL Posts: 4,006	Winning independence through force of arms does NOT justify the Palestinian terrorist cause. Americans fought for their own independence and didn't have to attack another country to get it. The Palestinians are already independent. They are not under Israeli control. They are free to live on their own land without any oppression or control from Israel. The trouble is they keep going onto someone else's honestly obtained land and attacking them without cause, or justification. The land was owned by the British Empire. While I'm against all forms of imperialism, the fact is it does exist. Before that it was owned by the Ottoman Empire (Turks). Before that it was owned by the Roman Empire. Before that by the Egyptian Empire. And before that there is no recorded history so for all of the recorded history of mankind, there has never been land in that part of the world owned by the Palestinian People. There IS recorded history on the other hand of the nation of Israel. And while they lost that land and no longer owned it, the legal owner returned that land to them and was even generous enough to give some land to create Jordan and to split what was left with some squatters from surrounding countries calling themsleves Palestinians. But rather than be happy that they finally do own some land and live in peace with thier new neighbors, they launched unprovoked attacks against them. If I own land that I don't live on and you decide to build a house on it when I'm not looking, it doesn't mean you own it. __________________ "I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death." - George Carlin

05-19-2004, 05:56 PM	#37
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	lots of people out being friendly - making nice with each other today. gotta love it. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

05-19-2004, 05:38 PM	#34
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	RADAR unless I am much mistaken the Roman's brought in Nomadic arabic peoples to that area and encouraged settlement. Those people were the forerunners of the Palestinians.

05-19-2004, 05:42 PM	#35
be-bop Operations Operative Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: scotland/uk Posts: 664	Oh and BeBop wind your dick in before you put somebody's eye out. [/b][/quote] Madam this post is no place for dick jokes

05-19-2004, 05:54 PM	#36
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	Be Bop there is always room for a dick joke! Yelof raises an interesting comparison in Ireland.

05-19-2004, 05:57 PM	#38
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	The UK had only a mandate to administer Palestine...they did not own it.

05-19-2004, 06:13 PM	#42
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	What I found particularly interesting and moving about the peaceprocess was the way many of the leading lights in the push for peace were the families of those who had died to the cause on both sides. i recall in particular the father of a lad who was killed in the Warrington bombings. I remember this very clearly because I lived not too very far way from Warrington at the time. The child had gone to see what was making the funny clicking sound he had heard coming from a literbin in the centre of town. The bomb wasnt supposed to go off it malfunctioned and blew up in the boys face. Blew his face off and he died in intensive care hours later. I heard his father speak. What a dignified man and what a brave thing to do. Turning his own sorrow into momentum for peace. On the other side of the water Irish women wereuniting across the sectarian divides to try and speak for peace. On TV I saw an interview with an Israeli woman whose son wa one of a group of soldiers who had been killed in action and whose bodyparts were being kept by the Palestinian militants as trophies. She was not advocating blood vengeance. She was weeping and imploring her government not to retaliate with further violence As she put it, she didnt want other mothers to feel what she was feeling regardless of whether they were Israeli or Palestinian. There is hope. 50 years does not make the situation immutable. The zionist right will not always have a stranglehold on the Israeli body politic....Just as neoconservatism in America will not last forever

05-19-2004, 06:14 PM	#43
Yelof neither here nor there Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 179	The Balfour Declaration A good Irishman always keeps a list of British perfidies handy

05-19-2004, 06:15 PM	#44
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	So, whose trust was betrayed?

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