PETA

[elSicomoro]

I can't wait to own my first fur coat...hopefully, it will be as joyous of a day as when I bought pimpin' coat.

[wolf]

Originally posted by xoxoxoBruce
Seeing as how were killing all these critters anyway, why not make fur coats for the homeless?

Because they already smell worse than wet dog. I can't imagine dealing with one wearing a wet dog.

[quzah]

Originally posted by vsp
Yep, I'm just dripping with sympathy here.

Likewise.

I'd say to think of it as not paying to get your animal back, but rather, to think of it as paying a kennel for the 12 days they sheltered and fed your animal. Price that shit some time.

You have to send your pet some place to be taken care of for a while, while you go out of town for two weeks or what not, and it's not going to be cheap.

Sure, they don't do a lot there, stick it in a cage, give it food, clean it's shit up. But still, you got it back in the end. And if you really care about the animal, you should be just happy they didn't kill it. Or that it didn't get run over. Or... Whatever.

I'd be happy as a pig in shit to get my "pet" back if he'd been gone for twelve days. Shit, I'd send them fucking flowers and a "Thank You!" card.

But hey, that's just me. And everybody knows I'm suffering from wacked out "conditions". Oh, wrong thread.

Quzah.

[Elionwyr]

Here's a catch-22 that makes my head hurt:

We have hunted chinchillas into genetic extinction - there are less than 50 left in the wild.

Thank you, fur trade.

However...because the fur trade took chinchillas to North America and started breeding them for fur, non-ranchers were introduced to the critters, thought they were cute, and wanted to make them into pets.

They are now found throughout NA and Europe, and are doing very well indeed in captivity.

There are still a lot of books out there that have old chinchilla information in them that was taken directly from fur farmers, because that was all we really knew about chins for years. So - ya know - very little about longevity, but LOTS about breeding.

Obviously, the ideal here would have been to NOT overhunt chinchillas. Still...I find it an interesting discussion point.

[Elspode]

Originally posted by quzah

Likewise.

I'd say to think of it as not paying to get your animal back, but rather, to think of it as paying a kennel for the 12 days they sheltered and fed your animal. Price that shit some time.

You have to send your pet some place to be taken care of for a while, while you go out of town for two weeks or what not, and it's not going to be cheap.

Sure, they don't do a lot there, stick it in a cage, give it food, clean it's shit up. But still, you got it back in the end. And if you really care about the animal, you should be just happy they didn't kill it. Or that it didn't get run over. Or... Whatever.

I'd be happy as a pig in shit to get my "pet" back if he'd been gone for twelve days. Shit, I'd send them fucking flowers and a "Thank You!" card.

But hey, that's just me. And everybody knows I'm suffering from wacked out "conditions". Oh, wrong thread.

Quzah.

.

I have paperwork proving ownership. They wouldn't look at it. They told me I had no options, period, other than adoption.

If I was in violation of a law, then I should have been issued a citation and made to pay a fine. If not, I should have been allowed to retrieve my property and and pay any fees accrued for his care. But, as I said, there was *no* due process. They claimed my animal was theirs and forced me to adhere to their rules and regulations without any due process. That's not right. Even if I got off cheaper because of it (which I am quite certain I did), it isn't right.

And I don't give a shit if you think me neglectful of my animals. I'm not. They like to go outside, they're cats. They wouldn't be happy stuck indoors, no matter what anyone says about the subject. My animals receive routine and annual care, they are fed the highest quality, most expensive cat foods, they are groomed as required, and they go where they wish, sleep where they want, and are loved. The cat in question (whom I've had for seven years) has always come and gone at will, spending various lengths of time away from the house. It was not, despite your contention, unusual for his absence to go unnoticed because not all of our family members are at home at all times except when sleeping, and therefore some would see him when he would come in, often briefly, and some would not. Or are you suggesting that I need to do roll-call on my pets each day?

[Elspode]

Oh, and by the way, I have other methods of identifying him, but they said that didn't matter. He has certain physical characteistics that cannot be seen, but can be specifically palpated, and I could have easily described those to someone.

[vsp]

Originally posted by Elspode
The cat in question (whom I've had for seven years) has always come and gone at will, spending various lengths of time away from the house. It was not, despite your contention, unusual for his absence to go unnoticed because not all of our family members are at home at all times except when sleeping, and therefore some would see him when he would come in, often briefly, and some would not. Or are you suggesting that I need to do roll-call on my pets each day?

As a matter of fact, that is a rather good suggestion.

If you choose to let your pet run wild much of the time, that's your choice. I'm not saying that pets have to be treated like acute agoraphobics and locked in the basement until it's feeding time.

But you've been entrusted with that animal's welfare and care, and it has a brain the size of a golf ball. You're letting it out unattended into an environment where it could easily get hurt, attacked by other animals, flattened by a truck or otherwise put into dangerous situations. When the end of the day comes, if your pet is out there somewhere and your reaction is "Oh, well, he'll come back," as far as I'm concerned you're not much of a responsible pet owner, no matter what brand of expensive cat food you put out for it.

And if you get a knock on your door some night and someone's holding out the remains of your beloved cat and saying "I'm sorry, he just darted out in front of my car," please refrain from getting angry, much less looking surprised.

[quzah]

Originally posted by Elspode
And I don't give a shit if you think me neglectful of my animals. I'm not. They like to go outside, they're cats. They wouldn't be happy stuck indoors, no matter what anyone says about the subject.

Unless you keep your cat inside all the time, you can't control what they do. I don't even think that neutered cats will stay home. They just like to wander around. My point was that rather than to think you got screwed on the deal, to think of it as putting it up for boarding for two weeks.

I still don't have any sympahty for you though. If I did, I'd have to be sympathetic for all the beurocratic bullshit that people have to go through, and that's far too time consuming. I'd spend all day feeling bad for people who have to go through the DMV line three times, because the last time they were there it was seven bucks instead of the new $25, and the fact that they don't take debit, and the fact that I^Hthey only got a twenty the second time through, because who in their right mind would think the cost would go up $18 in four years?

Quzah.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally posted by Elspode
. They like to go outside, they're cats. They wouldn't be happy stuck indoors, no matter what anyone says about the subject.

I agree 100%. That is what cats do naturally. That is where they are the happiest. Why do you think cats kept indoors sit on the windowsill so much?

[vsp]

There is a difference between letting them go outside and letting them LOOSE outside and unattended for days at a time.

As for the windowsill, it's a quiet, sunny, safe place, unlike a lot of outside-the-house places I could name.

[Elspode]

By the by, where did I, at any time, ask for any sympathy? I was relating a personal experience with what I saw as an example of overzealousness on the part of an animal welfare organization.

I don't really care if anyone feels sorry for me or not. That was totally not the point. Similarly, I don't care if anyone disagrees with me or not. I am able to observe my cats' behaviors, and I think I understand what they want from their cat lives. For example, I have four cats. The male I've been talking about is quite independent and is prone to longish outdoor excursions. Two others rarely leave the yard, except to go into the back field (which is utterly devoid of large, fast moving vehicle traffic). The youngest is still figuring out his world, but he, too, seems to be of an outdoorish persuasion so far.

You know, *I* run the risk of being killed every time I go out of the house. Maybe my wife needs to keep me locked up inside so I don't get squished by a semi?

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally posted by vsp
There is a difference between letting them go outside and letting them LOOSE outside and unattended for days at a time.

As for the windowsill, it's a quiet, sunny, safe place, unlike a lot of outside-the-house places I could name.

Yeah, and if you love your children, you'll never let them out of their room where they're safe.
If you go back and read the post you'll discover the cat could come and go as it pleased. It would come in to eat, drink and check on it's pet humans, when it wanted to. Living it's life as a free and happy critter instead of being "protected" by humans like the animals in the zoo.

[Lady Sidhe]

Well, I have six cats, three of which are inside cats, and three of which are outside cats. However, being the paranoid pet owner that I am, and being that I work at a pound, we have enclosed our carport for the outside cats. That way they can have the outside they want, without getting hurt.

We live in a fairly secluded area, but we also have possum and other wild animals that roam around. One of our cats got out somehow, and was killed by a dog...So, even my outside cats can't really go "out" out...but like I said...that's just me.

My grandparents live on a farm, with 15 acres, and all of their cats are outside in the barns, and they're just fine.

Sidhe

[vsp]

Originally posted by xoxoxoBruce
Yeah, and if you love your children, you'll never let them out of their room where they're safe.

Would you let your single-digit-age children run around outside unattended, coming and going as they please, vanishing for days at a time, without so much as a name printed on their shirt-tags?

Now ponder how much smarter and capable of dealing with situations a typical seven-year-old is than a typical cat or other domestic pet.

The key concepts are _unattended_ and _untagged_. Letting it out in a controlled environment, as in Lady Sidhe's example, is one thing. Just letting it run wild, on the other hand, comes close to my definition of "feral."

If you go back and read the post you'll discover the cat could come and go as it pleased. It would come in to eat, drink and check on it's pet humans, when it wanted to. Living it's life as a free and happy critter instead of being "protected" by humans like the animals in the zoo.

The cat is the pet of the humans, not the other way around. Protecting the cat is the humans' responsibility, not the cat's responsibility. If that doesn't sink in, then we are at an impasse.

[xoxoxoBruce]

We are at an impasse.:p
A cat is full grown at single digit age. You can't compare them.
Main Entry: fe·ral
Pronunciation: 'fir-&l, 'fer-
Function: adjective
Etymology: Medieval Latin feralis, from Latin fera wild animal, from feminine of ferus wild -- more at FIERCE
Date: 1604
1 : of, relating to, or suggestive of a wild beast
2 a : not domesticated or cultivated : WILD b : having escaped from domestication and become wild
This cat is hardly feral.
I have yet to see a 7 year old kid that was half as smart as the dumbest cat when it comes to recognizing danger and avoiding it.
I'm glad I'm not your cat. You're no fun at all.