O' Wise Ones, I Need Your Counsel

[zippyt]

I grew up in the racialy charged south in the late 60's early 70's , i went to public schools , i got cought up in forced bussing , i have always had a live and let live pholopsy on life ,, but when these HOOD rats invaded our little local school i came up with an other pholopsy , i call it the CRASY ASS WHITE BOY scheem ,
once i was confronted in the hall by 4-5 rats saying they were going to cut me up after school one pulled out a long thin pocket knife , i reached out and bent the blade untill it was sticking in his hand , freaked him the hell out !!!!! then at lunch i ran home and got a machette , after school dude and his buddies cornered me , i wupped out that big ass machette and flailed it about , they ran off screaming and pissing their pants !!!!! never had any trouble at any of the schools i went to after that , word spread , he is a CARSY ASS WHITE BOY !!!

remind your kids of these 2 sayings ,
but have a can of pepper spray and a ball bat by the front door

"Never attribute to malice that which can
be adequately explained by stupidity."

Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level
then beat you with experience.

[jaguar]

Yet another 'i was bullied in school story' here, personally one day i jsut got so fucking pissed off i grabbed the front guy by the hair and repretedly smashed his face into a metal pole before he had a chance to react (at the time i was short, wore pretty thick glasses and had one seriously dorky haircut, i don't think he really saw is coming), blowing out both his front teeth until a teacher or two dragged me off, i think the sight of thier badassed dreadlocked freind howling like a little girl and dripping blood all over the palce might have put them off after that.... On the other hand you've gota know when to stop, my last high school had a number of people with links to serious Azn gangs - don't fuck with those people.

Considering the situation i'd say a two-angle appraoch is needed, pepper spray and a tazer and legal fucking hell. Give the kids enough weaponary to protect themselves in case the little fucker descides to get serious and wage legal war on anyone and everyone involved - the school(neglicange, failure to provde a safe environment....), parents, kids, cousins 3 times removed etc until you get don't-fuck-with-able status. Make sure you either have every possible authority either empathising enough with you to do something or sick of listening to you enough to do something.

[elSicomoro]

Ep, next to their safety, I'd say the kids' self-esteem is next important. How are they feeling about the situation?

I would imagine that the kids don't want to feel like their ol' man is fighting their battles for them. At the same time, if they've tried to handle the situation as best as possible non-violently, it could be wearing them down.

I wouldn't advocate a good ass-whipping these days. There's too much of a risk for "more firepower." But if the ignoring isn't working (which I'm assuming it doesn't), and if this kid was bold enough to pull off an assault, then legal means are the best recourse.

It sounds to me like these kids are a combination of "me generation" and semi-thug life. A dangerous mix.

This whole thing sorta sounds like an incident that happened here in Philadelphia: an Iraqi kid was beat up by some other kids a few weeks ago. One of the instigators has apparently caused quite a bit of property damage in the area as well. And it's in a middle to upper-middle class suburb, on the border with the city (about 10 minutes from where we live).

[xoxoxoBruce]

Hi Jag.
Elspode,Since you've already gone public with this, too late to take them down. You'll have to work within the system unless they attack.

[Whit]

     It's not to late, I'm willing to testify that Ep said he wouldn't hurt the kids. If they happen to get run down or beaten to a fine paste I'm sure we all recognize that all of his dealings with us show him to be a calm and eventempered man.

[xoxoxoBruce]

OK.
Elspode who?

[OnyxCougar]

In California, Arizona and Nevada, there is a policy of "safe passage" in the school districts, meaning that the school is still responsible for providing a safe environment until they walk in your door.


And if ANYone (regardless of age) sucker punched my kid while I was standing there, they wouldn't have left the doorway without a stretcher and a crowd of onlookers.

[Elspode]

Unfortunately, I wasn't there when the sucker punching occurred, and my wife was unsure of our rights in the matter.

We now know that, the next time the kid comes onto our property, we are within our legal rights to use "reasonable force" to detain him for trespassing, or for whatever other infractions which may have been perpetrated during his presence. To this end, I now have a pair of handcuffs near my front door, awaiting his inevitable brash, but misguided, return.

I think the "safe passage" concept holds here, as well...the perp has gotten some fairly severe consequences in school from all of this, including being held back in his grade for some period of time.

[warch]

Yep, the school may help out. They should help out. Sounds like the miscreant has a long history-there will be his social worker as a resource, If nothing else he or she has child welfare/detention's ear. I'm sure hes had some court experience. He may have already been in juvi- Grandma is legally responsible, and if she cant handle him the law must. Send her legal notice.The idea to keep in constant contact with the cops, documenting the little shit, is good. A restraining order would be great. Squeeky wheel and all.

Of course the kid wont care about that from you, or any warnings. That kid is fucked up. The only thing that may get to him is Grandma or the Cops.

Letting your neighbors know, asking for their eyes, is good advice too.

I would give your kids mace if you feel they may get jumped. And make sure they know to go with their fear instincts, not feel silly, and report anything to the cops/ school authorities immediately, especially if youre not around.

But other than in direct defense, dont escalate the violence. (Handcuffs are good!) Dont let your reaction charge the demon up. There is no more to say to the kid. All goes to adults now. Calm and in control. Bring the hammer.

You'll get him stopped.

And yes, working in schools, I have had an 8 year old spit and throw chairs at me as I intervened while he was beat the living crap out of another 2nd grader. This child knew if he had the other kids hair, his punches would land harder. Fucking experienced shit for 2nd grade, man. I didnt last long at that school. Nobody did.

[Hubris Boy]

'Mmmm... how 'bout this:

Next time you see 'Lil Homey, say the following in a very calm, matter-of-fact tone of voice: "If you ever bother any of my kids again, I will arrange to have you accidentally shot and killed by a police officer. And I can get away with it, once, because I'm white."

I don't know if it'll work, but it might at least make him pause and reflect.

[Elspode]

I actually gave him a similar speech, without the killing part, and leaving out the whole white/black thing. I pushed the socio-economic angle. Didn't seem to faze him much since he rode by on his bike about an hour later and shouted obscenities, then a little while later, sneaked into my side yard and heaved a large stick at my oldest stepson.

Nah, it is going to take some sort of actual physical and legal ramifications to stop this kid. It will happen sooner or later, I'm sure.

[warch]

From my impossible vantage: Seems to me the kid doesnt care. He wouldnt mind getting wacked, cause he's got no hope or worth. Not gonna live that long anyway. He'd go out in a blaze, cause a stir, and hey that's something. Its residential treatment time.

[Hubris Boy]

Originally posted by Elspode
Nah, it is going to take some sort of actual physical and legal ramifications to stop this kid. It will happen sooner or later, I'm sure.

Okay. I'll bring the rope. :p

[elSicomoro]

Originally posted by Elspode
I actually gave him a similar speech, without the killing part, and leaving out the whole white/black thing.

But those are the best threats to use. Just say some shit like, "Yeah, my cousin heads up the Klan chapter in Neosho" or something like that, then throw in a "Boy, do they hate niggers!" for good measure. Maybe make a cross out of popsicle sticks, set it on fire, and put it on his stoop for added effect. A noose might work too.

[Elspode]

I have a difficult time stooping to that level, I guess...I am not a prejudiced person, and have only noted the ethnicity of this particular individual as it seems to be pertinent to his behavior, which is what I would loosely categorize as "gangsta-oriented", as it is a resonably widely disseminated stereotype at this point.

I don't think being an asshole is a racial issue. I think being an asshole means just that, and race really doesn't enter into it. And yes, Syc, I know you are being over the top on purpose, and it is okay. I just don't want anyone to think that I'm some sort of a toothless throwback to the days of Jim Crow.

I didn't mind throwing in the threats I did the first time, though...I mean, I am older, I do have more money than he or his family has and can pay more and better lawyers, and it is highly likely that a court of law would take the word of a thirty year resident of Grandview over some punk kid who just moved in with his Grandma a year or so ago.

It isn't the kid's fault that he comes from scum, but it is damn sure his fault that he chooses to perpetuate the lineage.

Oh, yeah...one more thing. If I burned a popsicle stick cross on his porch, made KKK threats or showed a noose, you can bet I'd find my ass up on federal civil rights violation charges a hell of lot faster than that kid would find himself in trouble for duking my boy.