Iraqis welcome coalition forces - Page 3

Elspode · 03-25-2003, 09:26 PM

Excellent analysis, tw...this war is not going to be the quick and relatively painless thing we were all expected to believe. The Iraqis are not surrendering in huge numbers, and they are beginning to turn loose their big dogs.

I too feel that we are undermanned and underequipped. Arrogance causes this, and GW is nothing if not arrogant where this is concerned.

smoothmoniker · 03-26-2003, 02:43 AM

TW - your aggregation of information from various sources is greatly appreciated.

Regarding the progress of the US forces, some mention should be made that this war is not being waged in the traditional manner. Extraordinary measures are being taken to minimize civilian casualties. The result is a tempo of operation and selection of engagments that makes the task much more difficult.

It seems that the execution of the militarial aspects of this campaign are being subjugated to future social and political agenda in a way not really seen before. The attempt seems to be a military campaign that leaves the populace in a particular disposition well suited toward the task of rebuilding a political structure.

Witholding, for the moment, any speculation as to the possible success of these plans, it seems better than the previous method of obliteration, forced capitulation, and punative reparations prior to any thought of social and political reconstruction.

-sm

Griff · 03-26-2003, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by smoothmoniker
It seems that the execution of the militarial aspects of this campaign are being subjugated to future social and political agenda in a way not really seen before. The attempt seems to be a military campaign that leaves the populace in a particular disposition well suited toward the task of rebuilding a political structure.

Witholding, for the moment, any speculation as to the possible success of these plans, it seems better than the previous method of obliteration, forced capitulation, and punative reparations prior to any thought of social and political reconstruction.

-sm

While I doubt we will actually succeed at remaking the mid east in the Wests image, our people are doing their best within the outlines they've been given. We can hope the people of the region will appreciate that but I wouldn't lay the value of a "dicer's oath".

tw · 03-26-2003, 06:03 PM

Previously I had asked how, after war has ended, how should this war be settled. What should be the political settlement? What are the occupation plans for the next two to five years? This post reminds everyone that no one has posted a reply. Why? I suspect because no one has even given serious (more than passing) consideration to this question - even at the highest levels of government. What happens to Iraq after the war has ended should have been well established and defined already.

Of course such plans assume the population would widely welcome their liberators. We don't even know if that is true - and yet must to be planning for Iraq's future.

If you want America to be the world policeman, then you better be that fully versed in these kinds of questions - everyday. It is why Americans 30 years ago did not want to be world policemen. But with the new doctrine of preemption, Americans must decide the future of other nations and therefore be fully knowledgeable to vote those decisions.

elSicomoro · 03-26-2003, 07:45 PM

Hey, if we can make Iraq the new Puerto Rico, that'd be great!

Uryoces · 03-26-2003, 08:34 PM

The US seems to be determined to rebuild the country itself. There were many contracts offered to US companies for the reconstruction effort, but none offered to any other countries. Blair is a bit concerned about this and has expressed his displeasure.

France is bitching about having a piece of the Iraqi pie. That takes fucking unmitigated gall [gaul, hah!], and huge piles of hot-steaming chutzpah. No deals Mr. Chirac.
Whish I knew where I got this, but it rings true:

Quote:

Germany appears to have been selling technical support and components for WMD to Iraq for the last 10 years, at least. Their moral stance on this entire affair is dubious, at best. France has ongoing sweetheart deals with Saddam's regime personally, some in direct violation of existing UN resolutions: deals an Iraq without Saddam is unlikely to continue. Their moral stance on this is highly dubious, at best.

The arab world wants us out, and view us as Christian Crusaders, fine. They need to step up and help out in Iraq. You listening, King Saud? The charge was leveled at us that we abandoned Afghanistan after the Soviets left, but I dind't see anyone else stepping in.

The key here is to make the common man in the street happy. Make sure you've rebuilt his power, water, and housing situation. Aid organizations,properly funded ones, need to step in and support education and medical needs.

As I said before, I hope that in the summer of 2004, anyone that visits Baghdad will see very few traces of this war.

elSicomoro · 03-26-2003, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Uryoces
You listening, King Saud?

King Saud died in 1969. I believe you are thinking of King Fahd, who has been king since 1982.

But if you were just making fun of the Saudis, carry on...

tw · 03-26-2003, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sycamore
Hey, if we can make Iraq the new Puerto Rico, that'd be great!

How convenient. The US Navy needs a new beach for live fire exercises.

Not exactly what I had in mind for a post war Iraq, but a start.

elSicomoro · 03-26-2003, 08:54 PM

Actually, I was thinking of a tourist destination. But your idea is sharp.

Uryoces · 03-27-2003, 08:10 PM

Quote:

King Saud died in 1969.

Aww crap!!! No more weed for me! God, I knew that. There was a very good Frontline special called "Red Sands", that talked about our one-way relationship with Saudi Arabia. As in we know nothing, and the CIA is instructed to know nothing about them. That's a dangerous freaking blindspot. Might have been Frontline. The evening was beer-enhanced.

A lot of the criticism against the US, not all of it undeserved, comes from Saudi Arabia. A lot of the people bringing the criticism against the US are from or are associated with some very wealthy families - think bin Laden. I like the idea of an arab country helping another. They don't like the idea of the US helping an arab country.

elSicomoro · 03-27-2003, 10:13 PM

Deep down, some Arab rulers are like Americans--greedy. That's why the UAR didn't work. That's why there will never be a pan-Arab state. They'll fight and bitch about the evil Americans, and yet they treat their neighbors like refuse.

03-25-2003, 09:26 PM	#31
Elspode When Do I Get Virtual Unreality? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raytown, Missouri Posts: 12,719	Excellent analysis, tw...this war is not going to be the quick and relatively painless thing we were all expected to believe. The Iraqis are not surrendering in huge numbers, and they are beginning to turn loose their big dogs. I too feel that we are undermanned and underequipped. Arrogance causes this, and GW is nothing if not arrogant where this is concerned. __________________ "To those of you who are wearing ties, I think my dad would appreciate it if you took them off." - Robert Moog

03-26-2003, 06:03 PM	#34
tw Read? I only know how to write. Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 11,933	Previously I had asked how, after war has ended, how should this war be settled. What should be the political settlement? What are the occupation plans for the next two to five years? This post reminds everyone that no one has posted a reply. Why? I suspect because no one has even given serious (more than passing) consideration to this question - even at the highest levels of government. What happens to Iraq after the war has ended should have been well established and defined already. Of course such plans assume the population would widely welcome their liberators. We don't even know if that is true - and yet must to be planning for Iraq's future. If you want America to be the world policeman, then you better be that fully versed in these kinds of questions - everyday. It is why Americans 30 years ago did not want to be world policemen. But with the new doctrine of preemption, Americans must decide the future of other nations and therefore be fully knowledgeable to vote those decisions. Last edited by tw; 03-26-2003 at 06:07 PM.

03-26-2003, 02:43 AM	#32
smoothmoniker to live and die in LA Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 2,090	TW - your aggregation of information from various sources is greatly appreciated. Regarding the progress of the US forces, some mention should be made that this war is not being waged in the traditional manner. Extraordinary measures are being taken to minimize civilian casualties. The result is a tempo of operation and selection of engagments that makes the task much more difficult. It seems that the execution of the militarial aspects of this campaign are being subjugated to future social and political agenda in a way not really seen before. The attempt seems to be a military campaign that leaves the populace in a particular disposition well suited toward the task of rebuilding a political structure. Witholding, for the moment, any speculation as to the possible success of these plans, it seems better than the previous method of obliteration, forced capitulation, and punative reparations prior to any thought of social and political reconstruction. -sm

03-26-2003, 07:45 PM	#35
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	Hey, if we can make Iraq the new Puerto Rico, that'd be great!

03-26-2003, 08:54 PM	#39
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	Actually, I was thinking of a tourist destination. But your idea is sharp.

03-27-2003, 10:13 PM	#41
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	Deep down, some Arab rulers are like Americans--greedy. That's why the UAR didn't work. That's why there will never be a pan-Arab state. They'll fight and bitch about the evil Americans, and yet they treat their neighbors like refuse.

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