Horrifying pile up on the motorway

[tw]

Originally Posted by glatt

If traffic is heavy, then it's not about you and the driver in back of you, it's about you and the entire stream of traffic behind you. You can actually cause an accident in heavy traffic just by braking suddenly.

This and so many others have defined why safety of others is dependent on your actions. One thing everyone can do to increase all's safety is to seriously increase a distance in front when the fool behind tailgates. If necessary, everyone goes slower because of that tailgater.

Same applies to stopping at traffic lights. If you stop without seeing the entire vehicle in front, then you have seriously diminished safety of you, your passengers, the guy in front, and even pedestrians. It makes zero sense to pull up close to a vehicle stopped in front. If you cannot see where his tires touch the road, then you are seriously too close.

Obviously, don't watch only a vehicle before you. Safety means also watching at least two vehicles in front of that vehicle. Otherwise, all but expect to be rear ended.

And finally, red cannot be seen through inclement weather. Engineers put orange rear turn and emergency flashers on cars because red is not easily seen in fog, snow, sleet, heavy rain, and other adverse conditions. Orange cuts through bad weather. If adverse weather (or other conditions) causes serious speed reduction, then power those orange flashers. Red lights will be the last light seen in adverse weather by oncoming drivers. You should be able to hit that emergency flasher button without looking. Because an orange light is essential to your safety.

Only reason for crash discussions is to learn how not to be another victim. Unfortunately too many reporters are enthralled by their emotions. Forget what the purpose of their news report really is. How many reporters bother to discuss a major safety difference between red and orange lights?

[HungLikeJesus]

Something that doesn't make sense to me is that the flasher/hazard switch on our Subaru does not light up (when off), and is very difficult to find when it's dark.

[classicman]

Same with my Nissan.... and my daughters Toyota.
Kinda weird that just about everything is illuminated except the really important button.

[ZenGum]

So, practice hitting the dark spot.

Fog is a bitch. You can be driving through wispy clouds with visibility of 100 metres, and then hit a fog bank with visibility of five metres, but it is almost impossible to see this coming until you're right on it. Add darkness, rain and maybe smoke too, and it is a really nasty mix.

Yet the real cause of the problem is the idiot that doesn't slow down.

And tailgaters. Hate'em. Under the right circumstances, I'll tap the brakes or slow down to let them pass. I like the Tank idea though.

[wolf]

Fog and smoke are fairly common causes of huge multicar pile ups.

Heck, there's even a made for TV movie.

[ZenGum]

Very common indeed. As soon as I saw the numbers I assumed it had been fog. And human stoopidity.

[Gravdigr]

Originally Posted by HungLikeJesus

Something that doesn't make sense to me is that the flasher/hazard switch on our Subaru does not light up (when off), and is very difficult to find when it's dark.

It only took Chevrolet 80-90 years to illuminate their headlight switch, don't give up hope.

[footfootfoot]

Re: Affecting other drivers' safe driving distances


My friend applies the three second rule to anyone following him. If a person is 30 feet behind him, he slows down until he is driving at an appropriate speed for the distance he is being followed.

He has come to a complete stop on more than one occasion before the person finally passed him. I've seen cases where the tailgater refuses to pass.

[glatt]

The 3 second rule is a good one. It should keep you from ever rear ending the car in front of you, at any speed. That's because even if the car in front of you panic brakes to a dead stop, you still have 3 seconds to also panic brake and not hit them.

But if the car in front of you hits a deep pothole or debris in the road, you have even less time to stop before you hit that debris. That's because you can't count on the distance the car would continue traveling as it slowed down and stopped. That pothole isn't moving.

You're going 60MPH, that's 88fps. You see the car in front of you hit a deep pothole and get taken out. You might be able to swerve to avoid it, but if you can't, that pothole is three seconds, or 264 feet away. It takes you 1 second (typical driver reaction time) to hit the brakes. That's if you are paying attention. You're now 176 feet away from the pothole as you start braking. Typical stopping distance is about 130 feet, unless you have a sweet sports car. So you've got a 46 foot buffer. If you are tuning the radio, and let a second go by before you notice the car in front of you hit that pothole, you're hosed.

[BigV]

Nice chart.

You're friend's a menace.

The main reason we have troubles like these is because of drivers taking unexpected actions. In the OP, the unexpected action (by someone) was hard braking followed by being rear ended (repeat). Imagine someone running a red light, or changing lanes, or pulling out into traffic, etc. Those unexpected actions have a much higher likelihood of causing an accident than situations where drivers act in expected ways.

Having the driver ahead of me slow down, more and more and eventually stopping on the roadway (I'm presuming this is what you spoke of since if he'd pulled over to the shoulder passing him would have been the obvious choice and you said sometimes that didn't happen) is very unexpected behavior. Indeed the very act of slowing would at first exacerbate the very problem he is seeking to relieve.

Show him the chart and the suggestions to move over and let pass. Much more expected, much safer, and it completely solves his problem. Well, his tailgater problem. He's still a menace for stopping on the roadway for this kind of reason. But that's a different problem.

[infinite monkey]

Originally Posted by BigV

Of course the answer is don't drive faster than condition allow.

I don't know what a "black" fog is, but I've driven in fog, patchy fog, rapidly appearing fog, etc. It's frightening and dangerous. One situation that I've been in similar to this is driving on the highway and smoke from fires obscured the roadway quickly and almost completely. This is a very dangerous situation. If I can't drive more than 15 mph, I'd rather be parked on the shoulder, well off the roadway. Being unable to see should mean being unable to drive. You can't drive if you can't see. Terrible.

When I went on my whirlwind trip, I got caught in a sudden blinding rainstorm. I couldn't see in front or behind. I couldn't pull off because, knowing no one else could see, I might have been rear-ended. As it was, I could have been anyway. I was white knuckled until it cleared, which seemed forever but wasn't.

You can't pull off somewhere if you can't see, either. If the conditions (fog, rain, blizzard, etc) are other than "patchy" you're really in the hands of fate and luck. Kiss your ass goodbye and hope for the best. Hope for patchy.

The best drivers can get beat by nature.

I'd almost rather deal with the asshats in bumper to bumper construction zones at rush hour. Oh, yeah. I do.

[Sundae]

I was caught in a freak hailstorm once.
I was on a dual carriageway with a hard shoulder, and was able to pull over under a flyover.
At that point I had no confidence in my own driving skills whatsoever, and even less in other people's, simply because of the lack of visibility.

I felt safe under my bridge but appalled at the speed of the cars that went by me. Probably close to the speed limit (70mph).
You can't fucking SEE!
I even remember what song was playing (Macy Gray, I Try). I happily wailed along as my car steamed up and the hail turned the world into a grey television screen in front of me.

In less than five minutes I was able to move on, and luckily passed no accidents.

[SamIam]

I hate Denver drivers. They are homicidal. My worst driving experience was coming down from the mountains outside Denver on I 70 at night and in a pouring rain. Everyone seemed determined to drive 80mph, despite the conditions and the sharp curves. Visibility was so poor, I was afraid someone would rear end me if I drove at a safer, slower speed. Plus, every time I managed to create a safe driving distance from the car in front of me, someone would cut into it. I finally just got off at the nearest exit and waited for the rain to stop before I ventured out onto the Interstate again.

[ZenGum]

Here we take two seconds as a reasonable (minimum) distance. I don't think nine would ever be reasonable. If conditions are that bad, slow the #### down. Or do as Sundae did and pull over and wait.

[footfootfoot]

Originally Posted by BigV

Nice chart.

You're friend's a menace.

The main reason we have troubles like these is because of drivers taking unexpected actions. In the OP, the unexpected action (by someone) was hard braking followed by being rear ended (repeat). Imagine someone running a red light, or changing lanes, or pulling out into traffic, etc. Those unexpected actions have a much higher likelihood of causing an accident than situations where drivers act in expected ways.

Having the driver ahead of me slow down, more and more and eventually stopping on the roadway (I'm presuming this is what you spoke of since if he'd pulled over to the shoulder passing him would have been the obvious choice and you said sometimes that didn't happen) is very unexpected behavior. Indeed the very act of slowing would at first exacerbate the very problem he is seeking to relieve.

Show him the chart and the suggestions to move over and let pass. Much more expected, much safer, and it completely solves his problem. Well, his tailgater problem. He's still a menace for stopping on the roadway for this kind of reason. But that's a different problem.

He lives in Vermont. There isn't a shoulder. He slows down gradually and puts on his 4 ways. He knows he is being an asshole. He's a Bluegrass Mandolin player. 'Nuff said?