How much is reasonable to spend on food? - Page 3

jinx · 01-16-2010, 03:11 PM

I think the importance of organic depends largely on the conventional alternative. Round-up Ready genetically modified soy products don't appeal to me at all, so I look for organic soy or skip it. I buy local fruits/vegetables that I can wash the pesticides off of more often (when available) than organic at the grocery store.

squirell nutkin · 01-16-2010, 03:29 PM

We shop at our local food coop and we are really lucky that we live in a very vibrant farm community and have a very large garden.

I rarely buy organic from the big chain stores, would only shop at Whole Paycheck, if there were no other grocery stores around.

There is a lot of deliberate misinformation when it comes to describing food. For example the term "free range chicken" has a specific, legal definition. All that is required to call a bird "free-range" is that it have access to the outdoors. You could have 60,000 chickens in a gymnasium with no ventilation or lights and a single 12"x12" opening leading to a barren concrete lot as far as the eye can see and you can legally call your chickens free range.

Organic produce is suspect to me, it is not necessarily better for you for starters, the definitions of organic have been cut off at the knees by the gov't so it is pretty much meaningless. Friends of ours who are not "certified organic" actually have better, stricter growing practices than certified organic farms. They can't afford to be certified.

At the Park Slope Coop where mrs. nutkin was a member there was a memeber whose job it was to test all the produce that came in for traces of herbicides and pesticides. (It is a big coop) They were always finding non-organic stuff.

I wouldn't spend my money on a label whether the label is Organic or Gucci. It means nothing.

Save your money buy things that haven't been cooked already, cultivate relationships with farmers and growers, eat in season, you can reduce your food bill and eat healthier.

Still, $200. a week for a family of four doesn't seem out of line.

squirell nutkin · 01-16-2010, 03:34 PM

I want to clarify that when I say "Organic is not necessarily better for you" I mean if you don't know the pedigree of that particular thing. An IPM grown carrot from rich healthy soil will be more nutritious for you than an organically grown carrot from poor soil that's been poorly stored and is wilting away.

All things being equal, and with a real, meaningful definition, organic is of course a better option on multiple levels.

You just can't trust anyone who is in business to make $ to lookout for your interests.

monster · 01-16-2010, 05:21 PM

There is a guy here I occasionally buy veg from. His veg is truly organic and prices similar to the supermarket. The incredibly high cost of "organic" food has nothing to do with quality and everything to do with marketing.

As an interesting aside, I sell scrip as a school fundraiser and there has been an enormous shift from Whole Paycheck to the local food co-op over the last few years. Both give 5% to the school, I don't believe there's an awful lot of difference in the prices, but the people's food co-op is local and they source their own suppliers, mostly locally.

monster · 01-16-2010, 05:23 PM

Oh, and.... one family of four who don't shop anywhere else as I understand buy $150 PFC scrip from me each week.

DanaC · 01-16-2010, 07:01 PM

I shop at the supermarket for some stuff; but I mainly buy from the village store. I'm not much swayed by the 'organic' label, but occasionally wil go on a healthfood shop binge; particularly if I've been eating a lot of meat products and am craving veggie stuff. I am swayed by goods that are locally produced. And I am swayed by animal welfare. I generally get eggs that are from free to roam hens, rather than just 'free-range', and I try to get the ones that are from Yorkshire rather than those from further afield. If i can, I get Northowram Farm eggs. Much of the fresh veg I buy is locally grown.

Stormieweather · 01-16-2010, 07:23 PM

I don't buy foods just because their label says "organic". And I don't go to a "health food store" to buy them. I know I've posted this before, but I shop at three stores every week...a farmers market for fruits/veggies, Family Dollar for paper goods, and grocery store for the rest.

But, I refuse to buy processed meats (lunch meat, hot dogs, bacon) with nitrates in them and the alternative is expensive. I just buy these sorts of things rarely. I do buy organic meat like chicken and beef, and a few other items such as Silk (my husband has to drink on Dr.s order) and milk. I buy cage free organic eggs and other dairy such as cheese.

Most everything else is just regular off-the-shelf stuff but I won't buy anything with artificial coloring, MSG, HFCS, mechanically separated meat, or other artificial flavorings/preservatives.

I'm fairly new to the healthy eating crowd, and I'm not fanatical about it...just trying to cut out the worst of the offenders. I know that a few years ago, organic didn't mean diddly, but the USDA started requiring that anything labeled organic must be produced without antibiotics, hormones, pesticides, irradiation, or bioengineering, as well as certain humane treatment of animals. So, while it might not be ideal, the label appears to eliminate most of what I'm trying to avoid.

If I had the time, space, and ability, I'd do my own growing, canning, freezing, etc. But I live in a city and work two jobs, and buying it is the next best thing.

HungLikeJesus · 05-15-2010, 01:25 PM

I really don't understand what people mean when they say "eat healthy" or "eat healthier."

Is the elk healthier than the mountain lion? They have completely different diets. The elk has a big belly and eats only vegetables. The mountain lion is thin and fast and eats mostly elk.

xoxoxoBruce · 05-15-2010, 01:49 PM

Neither the Elk nor the Lion go to McDonald's. We are omnivores, meat and veggies are both good for us, but eating healthier takes into consideration how the meat/veggies were produced and prepared.
No, deep fried Snickers bars, do not grow on trees.

glatt · 05-15-2010, 04:52 PM

plus, back in caveman days, a 40 year old was an old man. We live long enough now that an unhealthy diet is what winds up killing us. We aren't dying of starvation, or of infectious diseases or trauma like we used to. If we want to live longer, we have to focus on the diet now, because we've pretty much conquered the other causes of death. It's a good thing.

kerosene · 05-16-2010, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

No, deep fried Snickers bars, do not grow on trees.

No, but cigarettes do!

HungLikeJesus · 05-16-2010, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glatt

plus, back in caveman days, a 40 year old was an old man. We live long enough now that an unhealthy diet is what winds up killing us. We aren't dying of starvation, or of infectious diseases or trauma like we used to. If we want to live longer, we have to focus on the diet now, because we've pretty much conquered the other causes of death. It's a good thing.

That's just what the Whole Foods marketing people want you to believe.

I'm sticking with a strict Spam and bacon diet.

(When we were in Kauai last week we saw Spam hot dogs in the grocery store. If I could afford it I would move there tomorrow.)

01-16-2010, 03:11 PM	#31
jinx Come on, cat. Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: general vicinity of Philadelphia area Posts: 7,013	I think the importance of organic depends largely on the conventional alternative. Round-up Ready genetically modified soy products don't appeal to me at all, so I look for organic soy or skip it. I buy local fruits/vegetables that I can wash the pesticides off of more often (when available) than organic at the grocery store. __________________ Crying won't help you, praying won't do you no good.

01-16-2010, 03:29 PM	#32
squirell nutkin has a second hand user title Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: in a Nut House Posts: 2,017	We shop at our local food coop and we are really lucky that we live in a very vibrant farm community and have a very large garden. I rarely buy organic from the big chain stores, would only shop at Whole Paycheck, if there were no other grocery stores around. There is a lot of deliberate misinformation when it comes to describing food. For example the term "free range chicken" has a specific, legal definition. All that is required to call a bird "free-range" is that it have access to the outdoors. You could have 60,000 chickens in a gymnasium with no ventilation or lights and a single 12"x12" opening leading to a barren concrete lot as far as the eye can see and you can legally call your chickens free range. Organic produce is suspect to me, it is not necessarily better for you for starters, the definitions of organic have been cut off at the knees by the gov't so it is pretty much meaningless. Friends of ours who are not "certified organic" actually have better, stricter growing practices than certified organic farms. They can't afford to be certified. At the Park Slope Coop where mrs. nutkin was a member there was a memeber whose job it was to test all the produce that came in for traces of herbicides and pesticides. (It is a big coop) They were always finding non-organic stuff. I wouldn't spend my money on a label whether the label is Organic or Gucci. It means nothing. Save your money buy things that haven't been cooked already, cultivate relationships with farmers and growers, eat in season, you can reduce your food bill and eat healthier. Still, $200. a week for a family of four doesn't seem out of line. __________________ And now I'm finished posting.

01-16-2010, 03:34 PM	#33
squirell nutkin has a second hand user title Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: in a Nut House Posts: 2,017	I want to clarify that when I say "Organic is not necessarily better for you" I mean if you don't know the pedigree of that particular thing. An IPM grown carrot from rich healthy soil will be more nutritious for you than an organically grown carrot from poor soil that's been poorly stored and is wilting away. All things being equal, and with a real, meaningful definition, organic is of course a better option on multiple levels. You just can't trust anyone who is in business to make $ to lookout for your interests. __________________ And now I'm finished posting.

01-16-2010, 05:21 PM	#34
monster I hear them call the tide Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Perpetual Chaos Posts: 30,852	There is a guy here I occasionally buy veg from. His veg is truly organic and prices similar to the supermarket. The incredibly high cost of "organic" food has nothing to do with quality and everything to do with marketing. As an interesting aside, I sell scrip as a school fundraiser and there has been an enormous shift from Whole Paycheck to the local food co-op over the last few years. Both give 5% to the school, I don't believe there's an awful lot of difference in the prices, but the people's food co-op is local and they source their own suppliers, mostly locally. __________________ The most difficult thing is the decision to act, the rest is merely tenacity Amelia Earhart

01-16-2010, 05:23 PM	#35
monster I hear them call the tide Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Perpetual Chaos Posts: 30,852	Oh, and.... one family of four who don't shop anywhere else as I understand buy $150 PFC scrip from me each week. __________________ The most difficult thing is the decision to act, the rest is merely tenacity Amelia Earhart

01-16-2010, 07:23 PM	#37
Stormieweather Wearing her bitch boots Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Floriduh Posts: 1,181	I don't buy foods just because their label says "organic". And I don't go to a "health food store" to buy them. I know I've posted this before, but I shop at three stores every week...a farmers market for fruits/veggies, Family Dollar for paper goods, and grocery store for the rest. But, I refuse to buy processed meats (lunch meat, hot dogs, bacon) with nitrates in them and the alternative is expensive. I just buy these sorts of things rarely. I do buy organic meat like chicken and beef, and a few other items such as Silk (my husband has to drink on Dr.s order) and milk. I buy cage free organic eggs and other dairy such as cheese. Most everything else is just regular off-the-shelf stuff but I won't buy anything with artificial coloring, MSG, HFCS, mechanically separated meat, or other artificial flavorings/preservatives. I'm fairly new to the healthy eating crowd, and I'm not fanatical about it...just trying to cut out the worst of the offenders. I know that a few years ago, organic didn't mean diddly, but the USDA started requiring that anything labeled organic must be produced without antibiotics, hormones, pesticides, irradiation, or bioengineering, as well as certain humane treatment of animals. So, while it might not be ideal, the label appears to eliminate most of what I'm trying to avoid. If I had the time, space, and ability, I'd do my own growing, canning, freezing, etc. But I live in a city and work two jobs, and buying it is the next best thing. __________________ "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." - Mahatma Gandhi

05-15-2010, 01:25 PM	#38
HungLikeJesus Only looks like a disaster tourist Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: above 7,000 feet Posts: 7,208	I really don't understand what people mean when they say "eat healthy" or "eat healthier." Is the elk healthier than the mountain lion? They have completely different diets. The elk has a big belly and eats only vegetables. The mountain lion is thin and fast and eats mostly elk. __________________ Keep Your Bodies Off My Lawn SteveDallas's Random Thread Picker.

05-15-2010, 01:49 PM	#39
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Neither the Elk nor the Lion go to McDonald's. We are omnivores, meat and veggies are both good for us, but eating healthier takes into consideration how the meat/veggies were produced and prepared. No, deep fried Snickers bars, do not grow on trees. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

05-15-2010, 04:52 PM	#40
glatt ™ Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 27,717	plus, back in caveman days, a 40 year old was an old man. We live long enough now that an unhealthy diet is what winds up killing us. We aren't dying of starvation, or of infectious diseases or trauma like we used to. If we want to live longer, we have to focus on the diet now, because we've pretty much conquered the other causes of death. It's a good thing.

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