Biden: when Obama is faced with a crisis in six months you gotta support him - Page 3

classicman · 10-22-2008, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamIam

Yeah, maybe the question should be is which candidate can best pick a competant group of advisors who will act for the benefit of the nation and not some partisan idelogy.

Easy answer. Neither one - Whoever wins, their cabinet will be filled with political choices, not necessarily those who will work for the benefit of Americans. That being said, I think its a good thing to clean house every so often. Shake things up a bit.

SamIam · 10-22-2008, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicman

Easy answer. Neither one - Whoever wins, their cabinet will be filled with political choices, not necessarily those who will work for the benefit of Americans. That being said, I think its a good thing to clean house every so often. Shake things up a bit.

Which was really my point. The decisions are going to be made on idelogy. Voters are going to choose a candidate based on idelogy. We can only dream dreams about competance and hope they come true.

richlevy · 10-22-2008, 08:12 PM

Of course if Biden had said that they will test McCain becuase he was old that would have been seen as an attack. Unfortunately, it is just as true. The next president will be tested, both positively and negatively, no matter which one is chosen.

After 8 years of the "Bush Doctrine", our allies will be testing the next administration early on to see if the US is willing to engage it's estranged allies. Our enemies will also be testing us for the "Goldilocks effect", a response which is too hot or too cold to a crisis. Too cool a response will be seen as a weakness, in that the risks in taking action against the US will be less than the rewards. Too hot a response will be seen as a weakness, for exactly the same reason.

For example, in response to the 9/11 attacks, the US invaded Iraq, which resulted in the deaths of thousands of US soldiers, the injuring of tens of thousands of others, and the loss of about 1 trillion dollars and a great deal of the United States' 'moral authority'. The loss to Al Qaeda was zero, since they were not in Iraq at that time. Destabilization tends to benefit insurgents, and the US destablized Iraq. This 'hot response' has benefited our enemies for the past 5 1/2 years.

Even Afghanistan, which was a proper multi-lateral response, benefited Al Qaeda in that it tied the Taliban to them. Since Al Qaeda did not run Afghanistan, it did not really lose anything except a safe haven, which it has found in parts of Pakistan.

TheMercenary · 10-22-2008, 11:41 AM

Goat stories are fun and exciting.

Undertoad · 10-22-2008, 01:04 PM

Apparently Madeline Albright agreed and confirmed what Biden said: Obama will be tested and this is just a matter of fact in Int'l Relations.

glatt · 10-22-2008, 01:13 PM

It that why China captured our spy plane right after Bush took office?

lookout123 · 10-22-2008, 03:15 PM

no, that was clearly bush's fault. just ask tw.

Undertoad · 10-23-2008, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Experience is nice. But once one has significant experience, then more experience provides nothing but baggage.

Sometimes I judge people's posts by how hard they have to twist and turn to support their narrative.

Quote:

Any doubt that these people are in McCain's campaign were eliminated when McCain's VP choices were rejected...

cite

Quote:

...to put Sarah Palin on the ticket.

Well she is inexperienced, that's for sure. But now that we understand that experience is overrated...!

tw · 10-23-2008, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Well she is inexperienced, that's for sure. But now that we understand that experience is overrated...!

So you twist what I say? Or did you only read what was posted in black and white. McCain, Obama, and Biden all come with significant experience. Additional experience does nothing to make them more experienced. Notice how this paragraph and the previous post are completely different from what UT summarized.

Both posts say experience is necessary - despite how UT perverted it in his summary.

Palin comes with literally zero experience. She could not even campaign on her own until she was trained how to respond to well rehearsed keywords. Respond to keywords because she has neither experience nor sufficient knowledge. Being a front man (a spokesman) does not make a leader. Being a front line soldier also does not make a leader.

A leader must be able to provide two essential functions - attitude and knowledge. Essential in those functions is to define a strategic objective. Strategic objective has always been a point of dispute between UT and me. UT has demonstrated difficulty grasping the difference between tactical objectives and strategic objectives. In order for a leader to provide those two essential functions, a leader must be able to cut through the fluff. To achieve the 'irrefutable fact' (as Greene of ITT used to say). To be able to define that strategic objective.

Palin is so foolish as to believe Alaska was on the front line with the USSR. More foolish nonsense that only a naive spokesperson might recite. The front line obviously was NYC, LA, and Washington. She demonstrates no talent for grasping irrefutable facts. Obama, McCain, and Biden have demonstrated that ability repeatedly, in part, because all have more than enough experience.

Happy Monkey · 10-23-2008, 01:10 PM

I can't figure out what is controversial, let alone bad, about Biden's quote.

Undertoad · 10-23-2008, 02:35 PM

It's not controversial and not bad. It's just interesting. It was considered a gaffe because you don't want to be caught during the election predicting trouble.

One righty pundit (David Brooks?) said that he liked Biden because of Biden's tendency just to say whatever he's thinking -- exactly what the country needs in a Vice President. On one hand, it could be a gaffe; on the other hand, a gaffe can be accidental honesty, and honestly in a pol is always nice, whether accidental or not.

Undertoad · 10-23-2008, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Any doubt that these people are in McCain's campaign were eliminated when McCain's VP choices were rejected...

citation needed please

TheMercenary · 10-23-2008, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad

citation needed please

Give it up, he can't prove much of anything he imagines.

lookout123 · 10-23-2008, 06:16 PM

Is there any way to set the cellar up so every single tw post is immediately followed by a post that simply says:

citation needed please

It would be like our very own TWikipedia.

TheMercenary · 10-23-2008, 07:18 PM

10-22-2008, 08:12 PM	#3
richlevy King Of Wishful Thinking Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Philadelphia Suburbs Posts: 6,669	Of course if Biden had said that they will test McCain becuase he was old that would have been seen as an attack. Unfortunately, it is just as true. The next president will be tested, both positively and negatively, no matter which one is chosen. After 8 years of the "Bush Doctrine", our allies will be testing the next administration early on to see if the US is willing to engage it's estranged allies. Our enemies will also be testing us for the "Goldilocks effect", a response which is too hot or too cold to a crisis. Too cool a response will be seen as a weakness, in that the risks in taking action against the US will be less than the rewards. Too hot a response will be seen as a weakness, for exactly the same reason. For example, in response to the 9/11 attacks, the US invaded Iraq, which resulted in the deaths of thousands of US soldiers, the injuring of tens of thousands of others, and the loss of about 1 trillion dollars and a great deal of the United States' 'moral authority'. The loss to Al Qaeda was zero, since they were not in Iraq at that time. Destabilization tends to benefit insurgents, and the US destablized Iraq. This 'hot response' has benefited our enemies for the past 5 1/2 years. Even Afghanistan, which was a proper multi-lateral response, benefited Al Qaeda in that it tied the Taliban to them. Since Al Qaeda did not run Afghanistan, it did not really lose anything except a safe haven, which it has found in parts of Pakistan. __________________ Exercise your rights and remember your obligations - VOTE! I have always believed that hope is that stubborn thing inside us that insists, despite all the evidence to the contrary, that something better awaits us so long as we have the courage to keep reaching, to keep working, to keep fighting. -- Barack Hussein Obama

10-22-2008, 11:41 AM	#4
TheMercenary “Hypocrisy: prejudice with a halo” Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Savannah, Georgia Posts: 21,393	Goat stories are fun and exciting. __________________ Anyone but the this most fuked up President in History in 2012!

10-22-2008, 03:15 PM	#7
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	no, that was clearly bush's fault. just ask tw. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

10-23-2008, 01:10 PM	#10
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	I can't figure out what is controversial, let alone bad, about Biden's quote. __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

10-23-2008, 06:16 PM	#14
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	Is there any way to set the cellar up so every single tw post is immediately followed by a post that simply says: citation needed please It would be like our very own TWikipedia. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

10-22-2008, 01:04 PM	#5
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Apparently Madeline Albright agreed and confirmed what Biden said: Obama will be tested and this is just a matter of fact in Int'l Relations.

10-22-2008, 01:13 PM	#6
glatt ™ Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 27,717	It that why China captured our spy plane right after Bush took office?

10-23-2008, 02:35 PM	#11
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	It's not controversial and not bad. It's just interesting. It was considered a gaffe because you don't want to be caught during the election predicting trouble. One righty pundit (David Brooks?) said that he liked Biden because of Biden's tendency just to say whatever he's thinking -- exactly what the country needs in a Vice President. On one hand, it could be a gaffe; on the other hand, a gaffe can be accidental honesty, and honestly in a pol is always nice, whether accidental or not.

10-23-2008, 07:18 PM	#15
TheMercenary “Hypocrisy: prejudice with a halo” Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Savannah, Georgia Posts: 21,393	__________________ Anyone but the this most fuked up President in History in 2012!

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