Iran creates international panic - Page 3

DanaC · 10-22-2008, 02:24 PM

Yup we did. That we did. Indeedy deedy do.

TheMercenary · 10-22-2008, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanaC

Yup we did. That we did. Indeedy deedy do.

Stop raging on the towel heads you animals!

ZenGum · 10-23-2008, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Stop raging on the towel heads you animals!

Are you announcing a towlie-ban?

Ok I stole that from Southpark

Urbane Guerrilla · 10-23-2008, 01:42 AM

Excuse me? The actions of this Administration in removing tyrants and sponsoring democracy to replace tyranny cannot be regarded as stupid by anyone who isn't a fascist sympathizer. I have no fascist sympathies whatsoever, thus I support nondemocracies' destruction. Ladies and gentlemen, where but from nondemocracies do the world's troubles come from? We democracies end up obliged to clean up the mess, lest an infection of the global body politic result.

Anyone of sense would do likewise. Others will pretend to me their fascistic, undemocratic sympathies are somehow the road of virtue, but their pretenses are hollow, rotten, pustulent, and thrice foredoomed. Support the Iraq war or be a fascist idiot -- or a fascists' buttmonkey. These are the real choices. Support any war against a nondemocracy, provided the war is aimed at its removal, which is exactly the case in both the Iraqi and Afghan theaters of war, and you are really an apostle of democracy.

dar512 · 10-23-2008, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Excuse me? The actions of this Administration in removing tyrants and sponsoring democracy to replace tyranny cannot be regarded as stupid by anyone who isn't a fascist sympathizer.

*snort* Gimme a break.

Aliantha · 10-23-2008, 01:51 AM

I think you need to clarify how you define a successful state UG.

Urbane Guerrilla · 10-23-2008, 02:22 AM

Democratic social organization, prosperity, large middle class, and above all the greatest degree of liberty consistent with ordered life... the United States or Australia are by no means the worst examples to resemble.

That should clear it up.

Aliantha · 10-23-2008, 02:27 AM

I don't know of any arab nations which would resemble Australian lifestyle, and I suspect not US either.

I don't happen to agree with your definition though. In fact, I'm not sure that I believe there are any truly successful states. Every state on the planet has its own set of issues and problems. I believe that your particular perspective of those problems can cause you to have a particularly warped view of whether or not a state is successful or not.

Urbane Guerrilla · 10-23-2008, 11:09 PM

No I shall not. Either kill undemocracy and end its evils and oppressions, or get the fuck off my Earth for being lacking in good qualities. Sounds binary of me, to be sure, but I accept a continuum in politics -- continua are the essence of politics anyway. Still, the good men uproot evils, and the bad men just leave them to thrive. Where do you stand?

Honest to Pete, Dar, I hold you to a standard worth living by, and you object?? WTF, son?

DanaC · 10-24-2008, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Honest to Pete, Dar, I hold you to a standard worth living by, and you object?? WTF, son?

Arrogant? Or merely pompous?

dar512 · 10-24-2008, 10:35 AM

You want to know where I stand?

I stand with reason and rationality. I stand with honesty and fair play.

I believe that as individuals and as a country, we should treat others as we would like to be treated. I believe that diplomacy should be exercised to the furthest degree before starting a war. I believe that wars should not be started on a single piece of evidence.

I believe that the single piece of evidence for WMD was just a convenient excuse for W. to show up his dad. I believe the Iraqi war was a lame-brained mistake, just as I did before we sent a single troop over. I believe that tyranny had nothing to do with our invasion of Iraq.

I believe that the US is a great country, but it won't stay great if its citizens do not speak up when their country has gone wrong.

And I believe you have wandered into la-la land and I do not care to go. You have drunk your own kool-aid and have begun to believe your own propaganda.

Peddle your hallucinations elsewhere.

DanaC · 10-24-2008, 10:39 AM

lol served!

Cicero · 10-24-2008, 06:11 PM

I am only appalled at the use of the unword, undemocracy. It hurts......

I wonder what happened to UG. He's acting bent. Ug cool it!! Jesus...

DanaC · 10-24-2008, 06:12 PM

unword!...lol. Oh I like that. I do. That's brilliant.

Urbane Guerrilla · 10-27-2008, 04:00 AM

Not an un-word, Cicero... merely an inchoate unwillingness to accept it, and I'd say that's a problem you need to fix. Attaching prefixes is by no means illegitimate, as any seventh grade English teacher could confirm for you.

Dar, frankly, your reply contradicts itself from one paragraph to another. You say you're for reason, rationality, honesty and fair play, yet you want to object to the removal of rulerships and societies that refuse to do any of these things -- and are not these things what you are saying? Can't have it both ways, Dar old son.

Recognizing that, I don't have it both ways.

Our problems from foreign parts do not stem from democracies or constitutional monarchies. They come from one kind of source -- places where the rule of men supercedes the rule of law. Can you think of any place that gives us trouble that isn't that way? We don't shoot at democracies, nor they at us. For over a century, every fight we've fought has been against undemocracies. Every single one. I'd say we're in the habit.

You think you're going to show we're doing something else? Man, you've got a pile of work ahead of you, and even if you manage it, it's likely I can make one observation about your giant, antidemocratic effort that will pull the whole construct down like a Jenga tower.

For instance, it's clear you still believe we "rushed into war" in the Iraq campaign. I guess the only way you can sustain that belief is if you read no recent history whatsoever, at any time, for the remainder of your life. I dunno; reading history makes a pretty good hobby, it seems to me. The eighteen-month span of September 2001 to March 2003 hardly looks like anybody was in a big hurry to war, and there were all those UN Resolutions both passed and sought, plus Saddam's government's pattern of guilty behavior. The Ba'athist neofascists don't seem to have been smart enough to run a country... nondemocracies don't select for clearheaded intelligence the way democracies do.

The guy who believes the Iraq campaign in the overall GWOT was a lamebrained mistake is a man without any strategic understanding. We are undermining the whole terrorist bully-the-West rationale, by handing them defeat upon defeat, and having the backs of the peoples who are turning slowly but steadily against the Taliban and their brutality, against the shitheads and their terrorism. With every Muslim head they lop off, they chop away their own support. Since the Taliban are so generally recognized as mean shitheads, which is better: defeat them this year, or defeat them forty years from now? Should one put up with mean shitheads for the span of a generation?

I say this year is best. Vigorous elimination of the radical anti-Americans is not only good for us specifically, but is generally good for all of humanity, as a moment's thought will show you. Had you really, honestly never thought about it that way?

If there is any wrongness in removing undemocracy and replacing it with democracy, absolutely no one has been able to explain it. Dar, I'll be frank: a few people on this very Cellar have tried. None have been convincing, all of them were in error. They ended up trying to defend oppression, and failing to liberate the oppressed. This is a particular failing of the Left and the left-of-center, to the point where it is clear these people wouldn't recognize goodness or righteousness if it bit their leg off. The Left whores for oppression and undemocracy, and for that reason it should be abandoned by every human on earth, and left solely the province of the utterly inhuman, who then get jailed and executed for their other heinous crimes.

I await your intellectually dishonest reply, and will in rebutting it show you a better path than has hitherto satisfied you.

10-23-2008, 01:42 AM	#4
Urbane Guerrilla Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 6,674	Excuse me? The actions of this Administration in removing tyrants and sponsoring democracy to replace tyranny cannot be regarded as stupid by anyone who isn't a fascist sympathizer. I have no fascist sympathies whatsoever, thus I support nondemocracies' destruction. Ladies and gentlemen, where but from nondemocracies do the world's troubles come from? We democracies end up obliged to clean up the mess, lest an infection of the global body politic result. Anyone of sense would do likewise. Others will pretend to me their fascistic, undemocratic sympathies are somehow the road of virtue, but their pretenses are hollow, rotten, pustulent, and thrice foredoomed. Support the Iraq war or be a fascist idiot -- or a fascists' buttmonkey. These are the real choices. Support any war against a nondemocracy, provided the war is aimed at its removal, which is exactly the case in both the Iraqi and Afghan theaters of war, and you are really an apostle of democracy. __________________ Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course.

10-23-2008, 01:51 AM	#6
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	I think you need to clarify how you define a successful state UG. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

10-23-2008, 02:22 AM	#7
Urbane Guerrilla Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 6,674	Democratic social organization, prosperity, large middle class, and above all the greatest degree of liberty consistent with ordered life... the United States or Australia are by no means the worst examples to resemble. That should clear it up. __________________ Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course.

10-23-2008, 02:27 AM	#8
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	I don't know of any arab nations which would resemble Australian lifestyle, and I suspect not US either. I don't happen to agree with your definition though. In fact, I'm not sure that I believe there are any truly successful states. Every state on the planet has its own set of issues and problems. I believe that your particular perspective of those problems can cause you to have a particularly warped view of whether or not a state is successful or not. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

10-23-2008, 11:09 PM	#9
Urbane Guerrilla Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 6,674	No I shall not. Either kill undemocracy and end its evils and oppressions, or get the fuck off my Earth for being lacking in good qualities. Sounds binary of me, to be sure, but I accept a continuum in politics -- continua are the essence of politics anyway. Still, the good men uproot evils, and the bad men just leave them to thrive. Where do you stand? Honest to Pete, Dar, I hold you to a standard worth living by, and you object?? WTF, son? __________________ Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course. Last edited by Urbane Guerrilla; 10-23-2008 at 11:16 PM.

10-22-2008, 02:24 PM	#1
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	Yup we did. That we did. Indeedy deedy do.

10-24-2008, 10:35 AM	#11
dar512 dar512 is now Pete Zicato Join Date: May 2003 Location: Chicago suburb Posts: 4,968	You want to know where I stand? I stand with reason and rationality. I stand with honesty and fair play. I believe that as individuals and as a country, we should treat others as we would like to be treated. I believe that diplomacy should be exercised to the furthest degree before starting a war. I believe that wars should not be started on a single piece of evidence. I believe that the single piece of evidence for WMD was just a convenient excuse for W. to show up his dad. I believe the Iraqi war was a lame-brained mistake, just as I did before we sent a single troop over. I believe that tyranny had nothing to do with our invasion of Iraq. I believe that the US is a great country, but it won't stay great if its citizens do not speak up when their country has gone wrong. And I believe you have wandered into la-la land and I do not care to go. You have drunk your own kool-aid and have begun to believe your own propaganda. Peddle your hallucinations elsewhere. __________________ "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain." -- Friedrich Schiller

10-24-2008, 10:39 AM	#12
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	lol served!

10-24-2008, 06:11 PM	#13
Cicero Looking forward to open mic night. Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: New Mexico Posts: 5,148	I am only appalled at the use of the unword, undemocracy. It hurts...... I wonder what happened to UG. He's acting bent. Ug cool it!! Jesus... __________________ Show me a sane man, and I will cure him for you.- Carl Jung

10-24-2008, 06:12 PM	#14
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	unword!...lol. Oh I like that. I do. That's brilliant.

10-27-2008, 04:00 AM	#15
Urbane Guerrilla Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 6,674	Not an un-word, Cicero... merely an inchoate unwillingness to accept it, and I'd say that's a problem you need to fix. Attaching prefixes is by no means illegitimate, as any seventh grade English teacher could confirm for you. Dar, frankly, your reply contradicts itself from one paragraph to another. You say you're for reason, rationality, honesty and fair play, yet you want to object to the removal of rulerships and societies that refuse to do any of these things -- and are not these things what you are saying? Can't have it both ways, Dar old son. Recognizing that, I don't have it both ways. Our problems from foreign parts do not stem from democracies or constitutional monarchies. They come from one kind of source -- places where the rule of men supercedes the rule of law. Can you think of any place that gives us trouble that isn't that way? We don't shoot at democracies, nor they at us. For over a century, every fight we've fought has been against undemocracies. Every single one. I'd say we're in the habit. You think you're going to show we're doing something else? Man, you've got a pile of work ahead of you, and even if you manage it, it's likely I can make one observation about your giant, antidemocratic effort that will pull the whole construct down like a Jenga tower. For instance, it's clear you still believe we "rushed into war" in the Iraq campaign. I guess the only way you can sustain that belief is if you read no recent history whatsoever, at any time, for the remainder of your life. I dunno; reading history makes a pretty good hobby, it seems to me. The eighteen-month span of September 2001 to March 2003 hardly looks like anybody was in a big hurry to war, and there were all those UN Resolutions both passed and sought, plus Saddam's government's pattern of guilty behavior. The Ba'athist neofascists don't seem to have been smart enough to run a country... nondemocracies don't select for clearheaded intelligence the way democracies do. The guy who believes the Iraq campaign in the overall GWOT was a lamebrained mistake is a man without any strategic understanding. We are undermining the whole terrorist bully-the-West rationale, by handing them defeat upon defeat, and having the backs of the peoples who are turning slowly but steadily against the Taliban and their brutality, against the shitheads and their terrorism. With every Muslim head they lop off, they chop away their own support. Since the Taliban are so generally recognized as mean shitheads, which is better: defeat them this year, or defeat them forty years from now? Should one put up with mean shitheads for the span of a generation? I say this year is best. Vigorous elimination of the radical anti-Americans is not only good for us specifically, but is generally good for all of humanity, as a moment's thought will show you. Had you really, honestly never thought about it that way? If there is any wrongness in removing undemocracy and replacing it with democracy, absolutely no one has been able to explain it. Dar, I'll be frank: a few people on this very Cellar have tried. None have been convincing, all of them were in error. They ended up trying to defend oppression, and failing to liberate the oppressed. This is a particular failing of the Left and the left-of-center, to the point where it is clear these people wouldn't recognize goodness or righteousness if it bit their leg off. The Left whores for oppression and undemocracy, and for that reason it should be abandoned by every human on earth, and left solely the province of the utterly inhuman, who then get jailed and executed for their other heinous crimes. I await your intellectually dishonest reply, and will in rebutting it show you a better path than has hitherto satisfied you. __________________ Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course.

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