Social Obligations & Immunization

[vivant]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

Nope, there's no herd mentality. You may think you're the only person capable of making an informed decision, but you're not. You'll have to get over that one in your own time.

you take your pot luck with your children and just thank god you live in a society where these diseases are not prevalent due to the dilligence of people with more sense.

That's all I've got to say on this thread. I think I've made my point very clear.

Perhaps there is a cultural issue at bay here - if so, allow me to clarify:

The phrase Herd Mentality is not a direct insult on you or on anyone who disagrees with me. I've been clear from the get-go that I'm not out to change anyone's mind, and I've stated that we all do what we think is best for our respective families.

Herd Mentality is a common phrase in biology (and I thought socially, though maybe just in the US?) used to describe the theory you support (among other theories). Namely, that the "herd" (society) works as a whole, so that to keep the "herd" safe from disease, the entire "herd" must be immunized against said disease. Re-read what I said, with that in mind.

I have no need to attack people for what they believe. I'm perfectly comfortable with my choices in life; I don't need validation from faceless internet personalities or the illusion of numbers on "my side" to pump me up. I extend that same respect to others BECAUSE I know that I'm not the only person capable of making an informed decision. I'll thank God for that good sense

[Aliantha]

Hey Merc, are you having trouble taking my posts at face value today?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

Hey Merc, are you having trouble taking my posts at face value today?

No, you are on target. I am in a bit more of a mode to lay it all out for those who do not recognize that the decisions they think they are making for themselves actually put the rest of society at risk. I fully support people who want to kill off themselves but not when it places the rest of society at risk.

[vivant]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

No, you are on target. I am in a bit more of a mode to lay it all out for those who do not recognize that the decisions they think they are making for themselves actually put the rest of society at risk. I fully support people who want to kill off themselves but not when it places the rest of society at risk.

Lay it all out - I'm curious to hear more.

If an immunization is worth having, how protective can it be if you're still at enough risk to worry about contracting a communicable disease?

I'm sincerely interested in understanding how one can have faith in immunizations, but still believe society is at-risk from the minority few who opt not to immunize.

Goodnight my new friends; I look forward to reading more in the morning.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by vivant

Lay it all out - I'm curious to hear more.

If an immunization is worth having, how protective can it be if you're still at enough risk to worry about contracting a communicable disease?

I'm sincerely interested in understanding how one can have faith in immunizations, but still believe society is at-risk from the minority few who opt not to immunize.

Very simple. Not all of them will protect you 100% of the time. It is a risk benefit ratio. But the more people that do not get them, such as you seem to advocate, the more people are at risk, the more at risk, the more prevalent the disease becomes, the more people die from it or are severely disabled which eventually costs society through health care costs, time lost from work, the list goes on. Disease and illness through communicable disease is not a good thing for any organized groups of people living in community with each other.

[Aliantha]

Well, I happen to agree with your stance on this subject. Whole heartedly in fact, which is as much of a shock to me as it is to you I suspect.

[jinx]

Each vaccine is an individual product with unique risks and benefits. Do you consider that at all or are you just gung-ho for all vaccines to the point of being angry at those who don't choose to buy (and inject into their offspring, with no guarantee or warranty expressed or implied) all the same products you do?

Since we don't still use the smallpox vaccine (why is that exactly?), which vaccines actually on the mandates schedule do you feel are most important. Which nasty communicable diseases were you referring to in your earlier post?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by jinx

Each vaccine is an individual product with unique risks and benefits. Do you consider that at all or are you just gung-ho for all vaccines to the point of being angry at those who don't choose to buy (and inject into their offspring, with no guarantee or warranty expressed or implied) all the same products you do?

Since we don't still use the smallpox vaccine (why is that exactly?), which vaccines actually on the mandates schedule do you feel are most important. Which nasty communicable diseases were you referring to in your earlier post?

The most obvious and most frequently ignored is the flu shot. That is a big one. Hundreds of people die in the US from the flu each year. Everyone should be getting it.

The next big ones are MMR, Polio, Hepatitis, HPV (females), meningococcal, and varicella.

[HungLikeJesus]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

The most obvious and most frequently ignored is the flu shot. That is a big one. Hundreds of people die in the US from the flu each year. Everyone should be getting it.

....

Merc, why do you say that everyone should be getting the flu? I had either a flu or food poisoning last week, and I didn't like it.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by HungLikeJesus

Merc, why do you say that everyone should be getting the flu? I had either a flu or food poisoning last week, and I didn't like it.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by jinx

Since we don't still use the smallpox vaccine (why is that exactly?)

Because through an agressive world wide vaccination program we essentially eliminated it. I believe the last case was in Somalia some years ago. I believe the only reason to continue to get it would be if you were to be exposed to a weaponized form. Even the military stopped giving it to everyone, only certain groups still get it.

[Aliantha]

If that's the case, regardless of how you put it, you consider yourself to be apart from the 'herd'.

By your actions, you're considering yourself to be more important than anyone else.

You are putting the 'herd' at risk.

Oh, and if you don't want to change anyone's mind and you feel quite comfortable with your decisions and choices, then stop arguing your point.

[vivant]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

If that's the case, regardless of how you put it, you consider yourself to be apart from the 'herd'.

By your actions, you're considering yourself to be more important than anyone else.

You are putting the 'herd' at risk.

Oh, and if you don't want to change anyone's mind and you feel quite comfortable with your decisions and choices, then stop arguing your point.

Wow - tough crowd. Sensitive much?

I've already stated more than once that yes, I choose my family over society. So it's not only by my actions, but straight out of the horse's mouth, too. Still, that doesn't mean I think I am more *right* than the rest of the herd - which is what you alleged, and what I was addressing.

Who is arguing? It's a conversation. It's where grown-ups agree to disagree but can still discuss interesting topics. When asked, I answer. If you feel I am trying to change your or someone else's mind well ... I suppose you'll have to deal with that in your own time.

[Aliantha]

I'm sincerely interested in understanding how one can have faith in immunizations, but still believe society is at-risk from the minority few who opt not to immunize.

It has been explained to you already.

You would not feel anywhere near as safe and smug about your choices if it weren't for the majority of people who immunise which in turn creates a society where the disease is not as prevalent.

How difficult is that for people who think like you to understand?

[Aliantha]

I am sensitive to people who think it's ok for them to put the rest of society at risk.

Yep, people who think like you do piss me off in a big way. Not just on the net but in real life also. You are making life more dangerous for future generations.