They put a fucking 17 YEAR OLD in JAIL for this?! - Page 3

piercehawkeye45 · 01-09-2007, 05:22 PM

Yes, but you can get a rough idea and base the punishment off that. I know that won't be accepted very well and will be corrupted but it is better than putting a 17 year old in for 10 years for getting a blow job from someone two years younger than him.

Shawnee123 · 01-09-2007, 05:57 PM

I agree...the punishment is ridiculous.

I'm just playing devil's advocate when I say that it would be impossible to ascertain "maturity" for each and every time someone violates this law. Who decides? Psychiatrists? Who pays for that for every case like this that comes along?

The law as it pertains to the federal regulations I have to abide by in my job allow little room for subjectivism; everyone is treated as everyone else. That way, we cannot be accused of liking someone, or not liking someone, and basing decisions on our personal feelings.

I read that the law in Ohio says the age of consent is 16 as well. I lost "it" at 17 1/2 years old. My boyfriend was almost 16. Can you imagine (or, can I imagine) that I could have spent 10 years for falling into the love of youth and acting on it?

Scary stuff!

Ibby · 01-09-2007, 07:17 PM

My girlfriend turns 16 today.

Well too fuckin' bad!

piercehawkeye45 · 01-09-2007, 08:00 PM

And how old are you Ibram?

wolf · 01-09-2007, 08:05 PM

You are restricted under the laws of the jurisdiction you're in, Ibram. Age of consent in China is probably 25. Remember that kid in Singapore that got caned for grafitti?

Ibby · 01-09-2007, 08:21 PM

Well she's not in Taiwan, and it's sixteen in Maryland, where she is.

I'll be old enough in a couple months, though...

monster · 01-09-2007, 08:32 PM

Why is it always the case that the issues where it so easy to draw a physical line between "good' and "bad" are those where they grey areas are most needed, and those where a clear definition is needed are those where the dividing line is a grey smudge at best? It's so easy to say "the sex you had was wrong because s/he was only 15", and yet so hard to rule that "the sex you had was wrong because you didn't realize she really meant it when she said no because last time she din't report it".

piercehawkeye45 · 01-09-2007, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monster

Why is it always the case that the issues where it so easy to draw a physical line between "good' and "bad" are those where they grey areas are most needed, and those where a clear definition is needed are those where the dividing line is a grey smudge at best?

Too much work is my guess. It is much easier just to draw a line on hard issues then trying to work it out.

xoxoxoBruce · 01-10-2007, 07:34 PM

Quote:

It's so easy to say "the sex you had was wrong because s/he was only 15", and yet so hard to rule that "the sex you had was wrong because you didn't realize she really meant it when she said no because last time she din't report it".

Where did that come from? Did anyone suggest non-consentual was ok?

monster · 01-10-2007, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Where did that come from? Did anyone suggest non-consentual was ok?

No, sorry if I implied that -which I probably did- I was trying to allude the the (adult) cases where alleged rapists are found not guilty because at one point in the past, she said no but didn't cry rape afterwards...... There was a spate of such cases reported a year or so back along the lines of "she set a precedent for no not meaning no", so these cases were hard to convict, whereas in underage consensual sex, it's easy to convict even if no-one cries rape, simply because a minimum age is so easy to define and enforce.

That's probably not any clearer. perhaps I should look into a career in politics?

xoxoxoBruce · 01-10-2007, 09:18 PM

Much clearer, thanks. I went back and read the entire thread trying to find a reference.

monster · 01-10-2007, 11:15 PM

sorry

xoxoxoBruce · 01-11-2007, 10:53 PM

No problem, I knew you had a good point, I was just wondering what triggered it.

monster · 01-11-2007, 11:02 PM

alcohol, most likely

AgentApathy · 01-11-2007, 11:37 PM

I agree that if the kids in question are members of the same peer group, there should be different considerations. Kids are rash, impulsive, and not at all scholars of the law. If someone had wanted to push it, I was 15, nearly 16, at my first sexual encounter, and my boyfriend was 17. I'd hate to see him pay for the rest of his life for being a horny teenager having consensual sex.

The same crap happened to a kid here in Austin. He was 17, she was 15, and they attended the same high school. 15 y.o.'s mom was a judge, so when she got knocked up, Mom went through the roof and threw the book at the 17 y.o. As a result, the 17 y.o. will have the stigma of being a "sex offender" for the rest of his life, complete with his neighborhood being papered with postcards informing neighbors of the "sex offender" in their 'hood every time he moves... for the rest of his life. No explanation is contained on this card; it's up to the recipient go to look at the website to see what he was convicted of, and you can be sure that the average suburban mom won't do that: she will just freak out and organize the other moms to picket the poor kid's house (this happened).

I wish people would really think about these things before passing judgment. Another friend went through a messy divorce in which his ex accused him of fondling their boys. That was 20 years ago and the boys, now adults, are active in their dad's life, over at the house all the time and will tell you that their dad never did anything wrong to them (but that their mom is nasty and spiteful), but he also gets the postcards and picketing if he moves. Nice, eh?

What ever happened to paying your debt to society? Justice is blind, sometimes more often than we think.

01-09-2007, 05:57 PM	#32
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	I agree...the punishment is ridiculous. I'm just playing devil's advocate when I say that it would be impossible to ascertain "maturity" for each and every time someone violates this law. Who decides? Psychiatrists? Who pays for that for every case like this that comes along? The law as it pertains to the federal regulations I have to abide by in my job allow little room for subjectivism; everyone is treated as everyone else. That way, we cannot be accused of liking someone, or not liking someone, and basing decisions on our personal feelings. I read that the law in Ohio says the age of consent is 16 as well. I lost "it" at 17 1/2 years old. My boyfriend was almost 16. Can you imagine (or, can I imagine) that I could have spent 10 years for falling into the love of youth and acting on it? Scary stuff! __________________ A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice. --Bill Cosby

01-09-2007, 07:17 PM	#33
Ibby erika Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: "the high up north" Posts: 6,127	My girlfriend turns 16 today. Well too fuckin' bad! __________________ not really back, you didn't see me, i was never here shhhhhh

01-09-2007, 08:05 PM	#35
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	You are restricted under the laws of the jurisdiction you're in, Ibram. Age of consent in China is probably 25. Remember that kid in Singapore that got caned for grafitti? __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

01-09-2007, 08:21 PM	#36
Ibby erika Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: "the high up north" Posts: 6,127	Well she's not in Taiwan, and it's sixteen in Maryland, where she is. I'll be old enough in a couple months, though... __________________ not really back, you didn't see me, i was never here shhhhhh

01-09-2007, 08:32 PM	#37
monster I hear them call the tide Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Perpetual Chaos Posts: 30,852	Why is it always the case that the issues where it so easy to draw a physical line between "good' and "bad" are those where they grey areas are most needed, and those where a clear definition is needed are those where the dividing line is a grey smudge at best? It's so easy to say "the sex you had was wrong because s/he was only 15", and yet so hard to rule that "the sex you had was wrong because you didn't realize she really meant it when she said no because last time she din't report it". __________________ The most difficult thing is the decision to act, the rest is merely tenacity Amelia Earhart

01-09-2007, 05:22 PM	#31
piercehawkeye45 Franklin Pierce Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,695	Yes, but you can get a rough idea and base the punishment off that. I know that won't be accepted very well and will be corrupted but it is better than putting a 17 year old in for 10 years for getting a blow job from someone two years younger than him.

01-09-2007, 08:00 PM	#34
piercehawkeye45 Franklin Pierce Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,695	And how old are you Ibram?

01-10-2007, 09:18 PM	#41
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Much clearer, thanks. I went back and read the entire thread trying to find a reference. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

01-10-2007, 11:15 PM	#42
monster I hear them call the tide Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Perpetual Chaos Posts: 30,852	sorry __________________ The most difficult thing is the decision to act, the rest is merely tenacity Amelia Earhart

01-11-2007, 10:53 PM	#43
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	No problem, I knew you had a good point, I was just wondering what triggered it. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

01-11-2007, 11:02 PM	#44
monster I hear them call the tide Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Perpetual Chaos Posts: 30,852	alcohol, most likely __________________ The most difficult thing is the decision to act, the rest is merely tenacity Amelia Earhart

01-11-2007, 11:37 PM	#45
AgentApathy I just look like I'm listening Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 39	I agree that if the kids in question are members of the same peer group, there should be different considerations. Kids are rash, impulsive, and not at all scholars of the law. If someone had wanted to push it, I was 15, nearly 16, at my first sexual encounter, and my boyfriend was 17. I'd hate to see him pay for the rest of his life for being a horny teenager having consensual sex. The same crap happened to a kid here in Austin. He was 17, she was 15, and they attended the same high school. 15 y.o.'s mom was a judge, so when she got knocked up, Mom went through the roof and threw the book at the 17 y.o. As a result, the 17 y.o. will have the stigma of being a "sex offender" for the rest of his life, complete with his neighborhood being papered with postcards informing neighbors of the "sex offender" in their 'hood every time he moves... for the rest of his life. No explanation is contained on this card; it's up to the recipient go to look at the website to see what he was convicted of, and you can be sure that the average suburban mom won't do that: she will just freak out and organize the other moms to picket the poor kid's house (this happened). I wish people would really think about these things before passing judgment. Another friend went through a messy divorce in which his ex accused him of fondling their boys. That was 20 years ago and the boys, now adults, are active in their dad's life, over at the house all the time and will tell you that their dad never did anything wrong to them (but that their mom is nasty and spiteful), but he also gets the postcards and picketing if he moves. Nice, eh? What ever happened to paying your debt to society? Justice is blind, sometimes more often than we think.

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