If only - Page 3

9th Engineer · 10-29-2006, 07:57 PM

Quote:

justifications, Nineth, not reasons......

Hey, those are reasons. Maybe some some justifications thrown in, but primarily reasons...

lumberjim · 10-25-2006, 09:57 AM

don't let ThreadHijackMan hear you say that.

Flint · 10-25-2006, 09:58 AM

ThreadHijackMan! ThreadHijackMan! ThreadHijackMan! :::he appears?:::

BobT · 10-27-2006, 02:06 PM

the only thing worse than "using" a blowup doll would be "using" a half torso doll

lumberjim · 10-27-2006, 03:31 PM

oh, come now. use your imagination. you can think of worse. I know i can. I know a guy that knows some guys that fucked a stump. a tree stump. or a log or something. i don;t know how they got ....wood.

glatt · 10-27-2006, 03:37 PM

For example, I saw pictures on the web of a guy doing his car. Up the tailpipe. I can only assume he let it cool down some first.

Flint · 10-27-2006, 03:37 PM

Tiny fucked a stump...

orthodoc · 10-28-2006, 04:06 PM

'9th, you been in the real world job market yet or are you just at school still?'

When I was in university I had 35 hours of classes per week, then studied until the early hours every night (and weekends). That IS the real world for university and med students in heavy programs. Summer jobs, where I just turned up for 37 to 40 hours per week in an office with nights and weekends to myself, were my vacation.

The 'real world' comprises more than just office jobs. Dogging it and ripping off your employer by surfing the 'net on company time may be less 'real' than what many people do.

bluecuracao · 10-28-2006, 04:27 PM

The 'real world' is comprised of more than just work, too. In the 'real world,' the young and pompous get patronized regularly. Might as well get used to it now, and learn to roll with it.

Undertoad · 10-28-2006, 04:45 PM

Google, the most progressive and fastest-growing company in the world, insists that its top people spend 20% of their time on personal projects unrelated to their main work. Google doesn't care much if the projects actually result in anything, although Google News grew out of that approach.

There are several reasons for it. One is that employment is dehumanizing if it's treated like indentured servitude during the "work hours". The 20% allows people to work on what they love, not what their employers love. It also allows Googlers to say no to their managers on any particular day, for no particular reason.

As an employee you have less and less impact on your own life because jobs require you to be who you're not unless you're very lucky.

In student work you are spending time improving yourself. In real world work, you are spending your time improving your employer... maybe. And you yourself, and your work, may be flushed down the drain at any moment, for almost any reason, logical or not. Usually political.

orthodoc · 10-28-2006, 04:59 PM

The 20% personal project time at Google, I'm betting, is not supposed to be spent surfing message boards. I would expect the company wants to know what people are doing, even if the projects don't result in anything that benefits Google.

I spent years working in 'indentured servitude' jobs where my work hours were both boring and fully supervised. It was a straightforward contract: my employer needed certain jobs done, and I needed the money. Fair trade. My life, after 5 pm, was my own. I gave value for money during the day. I didn't consider it my right to rip off my employer because I found the job boring.

I don't believe 'luck' has anything to do with being in a job that allows you to 'be who you are'. In fact, I don't think any such job exists. Even when you run your own business, you have thousands of bosses - the customers. They dictate 'who you are' while on the job.

Why consider working to be dehumanizing? We all have to do it. We're all human.

9th Engineer · 10-28-2006, 05:30 PM

Quote:

One is that employment is dehumanizing if it's treated like indentured servitude during the "work hours".

Oh please, surely you jest. Indentured servitude? What do you think you are there to do? You provide a service for which your employer compensates you with a salary. So you find work you don't find personally satisfying 'dehumanizing'? Wake up, grab a cup of coffee, and shake the flowers from your hair man. If you wanted to do work that you found fufilling then you should have gotten the skills to do it while in college.

The Google bit is so completely non relevant to posting on message boards in the day that I'm not even going to address it. Your comment on luck however should be clarified. Saying that successful people who like what they do are there because of 'luck' is nothing more than an attempt to remove responsibility from yourself, those people are there because they worked hard and have been living according to their goals since before highschool in some cases.

Quote:

The 'real world' is comprised of more than just work, too. In the 'real world,' the young and pompous get patronized regularly. Might as well get used to it now, and learn to roll with it.

I'll judge who can get away with patronizing me. You can try to blow me off as pompous, but I don't assume ability goes hand in hand with age. Since I don't have to worry about your opinion of me holding my career back I'm free to call bs where I see it.

9th Engineer · 10-28-2006, 05:39 PM

Wealth is not an issue anymore with attending college, that's rediculous. It can affect where you go to college, but there are also loans and scholorships to pick up the slack. Student loans are very well regulated and easy debt to carry, I know plenty of friends from highschool are paying for most of college with loans and summer work with very limited help from parents.

bluecuracao · 10-29-2006, 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9th Engineer

I'll judge who can get away with patronizing me. You can try to blow me off as pompous, but I don't assume ability goes hand in hand with age. Since I don't have to worry about your opinion of me holding my career back I'm free to call bs where I see it.

Sure, you're free to do whatever you like. Including confusing opinion with 'real world' advice. Best of luck to you in your dealings with folks throughout the course of your career.

glatt · 10-29-2006, 08:24 AM

I'm a middle manager. I "catch" people surfing the web on a fairly regular basis. I walk into a room, and there are people checking My Space or whatever. I usually don't make an issue of it. They close whatever they are reading, and I pretend I didn't see it.

Those same employees are getting their jobs done. They have a certain workload they are expected to complete, and they complete that workload. Now if there is an employee who isn't getting their work done, and they are caught frequently surfing the web, that surfing can be one of several nails that close their coffin. But it's never the only reason for firing someone.

You may notice that I spend some time on the Cellar at work too. My job is flexible. I multitask. I can have the Cellar open in the background, while dealing with other stuff at the same time. Make phone calls, respond to e-mails, get up and go to a meeting, all while the Cellar is open. Some days get really hectic, and I never bother to open the Cellar because it would be a distraction. I've been in other jobs where having the Cellar open wouldn't have been possible, because I wasn't seated at a computer much. This one isn't like that.

20 years ago, people would goof off by visiting with co-workers at the water cooler. Now they do it on the Web. Same thing.

10-25-2006, 09:57 AM	#2
lumberjim I can hear my ears Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 25,571	don't let ThreadHijackMan hear you say that. __________________ This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality Embrace this moment, remember We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion ~MJKeenan

10-25-2006, 09:58 AM	#3
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	ThreadHijackMan! ThreadHijackMan! ThreadHijackMan! :::he appears?::: __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

10-27-2006, 03:31 PM	#5
lumberjim I can hear my ears Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 25,571	oh, come now. use your imagination. you can think of worse. I know i can. I know a guy that knows some guys that fucked a stump. a tree stump. or a log or something. i don;t know how they got ....wood. __________________ This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality Embrace this moment, remember We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion ~MJKeenan

10-27-2006, 03:37 PM	#7
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	Tiny fucked a stump... __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

10-28-2006, 04:06 PM	#8
orthodoc Not Suspicious, Merely Canadian Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 3,774	'9th, you been in the real world job market yet or are you just at school still?' When I was in university I had 35 hours of classes per week, then studied until the early hours every night (and weekends). That IS the real world for university and med students in heavy programs. Summer jobs, where I just turned up for 37 to 40 hours per week in an office with nights and weekends to myself, were my vacation. The 'real world' comprises more than just office jobs. Dogging it and ripping off your employer by surfing the 'net on company time may be less 'real' than what many people do. __________________ The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated. - Ghandi

10-27-2006, 02:06 PM	#4
BobT we are fuel Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: cape coral, florida Posts: 71	the only thing worse than "using" a blowup doll would be "using" a half torso doll

10-27-2006, 03:37 PM	#6
glatt ™ Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 27,717	For example, I saw pictures on the web of a guy doing his car. Up the tailpipe. I can only assume he let it cool down some first.

10-28-2006, 04:27 PM	#9
bluecuracao in a mood, not cupcake Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 3,034	The 'real world' is comprised of more than just work, too. In the 'real world,' the young and pompous get patronized regularly. Might as well get used to it now, and learn to roll with it.

10-28-2006, 04:45 PM	#10
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Google, the most progressive and fastest-growing company in the world, insists that its top people spend 20% of their time on personal projects unrelated to their main work. Google doesn't care much if the projects actually result in anything, although Google News grew out of that approach. There are several reasons for it. One is that employment is dehumanizing if it's treated like indentured servitude during the "work hours". The 20% allows people to work on what they love, not what their employers love. It also allows Googlers to say no to their managers on any particular day, for no particular reason. As an employee you have less and less impact on your own life because jobs require you to be who you're not unless you're very lucky. In student work you are spending time improving yourself. In real world work, you are spending your time improving your employer... maybe. And you yourself, and your work, may be flushed down the drain at any moment, for almost any reason, logical or not. Usually political.

10-28-2006, 04:59 PM	#11
orthodoc Not Suspicious, Merely Canadian Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 3,774	The 20% personal project time at Google, I'm betting, is not supposed to be spent surfing message boards. I would expect the company wants to know what people are doing, even if the projects don't result in anything that benefits Google. I spent years working in 'indentured servitude' jobs where my work hours were both boring and fully supervised. It was a straightforward contract: my employer needed certain jobs done, and I needed the money. Fair trade. My life, after 5 pm, was my own. I gave value for money during the day. I didn't consider it my right to rip off my employer because I found the job boring. I don't believe 'luck' has anything to do with being in a job that allows you to 'be who you are'. In fact, I don't think any such job exists. Even when you run your own business, you have thousands of bosses - the customers. They dictate 'who you are' while on the job. Why consider working to be dehumanizing? We all have to do it. We're all human. __________________ The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated. - Ghandi

10-28-2006, 05:39 PM	#13
9th Engineer Bioengineer and aspiring lawer Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 872	Wealth is not an issue anymore with attending college, that's rediculous. It can affect where you go to college, but there are also loans and scholorships to pick up the slack. Student loans are very well regulated and easy debt to carry, I know plenty of friends from highschool are paying for most of college with loans and summer work with very limited help from parents. __________________ The most valuable renewable resource is stupidity.

10-29-2006, 08:24 AM	#15
glatt ™ Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 27,717	I'm a middle manager. I "catch" people surfing the web on a fairly regular basis. I walk into a room, and there are people checking My Space or whatever. I usually don't make an issue of it. They close whatever they are reading, and I pretend I didn't see it. Those same employees are getting their jobs done. They have a certain workload they are expected to complete, and they complete that workload. Now if there is an employee who isn't getting their work done, and they are caught frequently surfing the web, that surfing can be one of several nails that close their coffin. But it's never the only reason for firing someone. You may notice that I spend some time on the Cellar at work too. My job is flexible. I multitask. I can have the Cellar open in the background, while dealing with other stuff at the same time. Make phone calls, respond to e-mails, get up and go to a meeting, all while the Cellar is open. Some days get really hectic, and I never bother to open the Cellar because it would be a distraction. I've been in other jobs where having the Cellar open wouldn't have been possible, because I wasn't seated at a computer much. This one isn't like that. 20 years ago, people would goof off by visiting with co-workers at the water cooler. Now they do it on the Web. Same thing.

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