Hezbollah night-vision gear manufactured in Britain

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by Hippikos

Currently 1500 Stingers are still in the possession of the (Muslim) Mujaheddeen and some have been used against El Al airplanes (Africa). How about that, MaggieL?

Well, it's a shame. But the Stingers were supplied to the Mujahedeen in hopes they could defend their homeland from Soviet invasion. I'm sure OBL has a bunch of them by now. It would have required quite a crystal ball to forsee those turns of events over that timespan.

But this NVG was given to Iran by the UN three years ago...just as the stink was rising about the Russians supplying the same kind of military tech to Saddam. That's not not the same thing at all; on that timesacle this outcome is a lot more obvious.

[Hippikos]

You lost me here Maggie. What has the UN to do with the British manufactured goggles? Maybe you need a disctraction too?

BTW Aug.22nd is very important to Iran re the 12th Imam

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by Hippikos

You lost me here Maggie. What has the UN to do with the British manufactured goggles? Maybe you need a disctraction too?

Maybe you need to read TFA.

[jaguar]

It is worth taking into account that Iran is a very major conduit for heroin to the west and to their credit, the Iranians have been working hard to combat that and have lost quite a lot of troops in the process fighting well armed and organised drug-running groups.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by jaguar

...to their credit, the Iranians have been working hard to combat that ...

And on the other side of the ledger is giving away the equipment they were given for exactly that effort to their surrogates attacking Israel.

[Ibby]

Well if that wasnt really directed at me I retract any indignancy from that post.

And I agree that its hard to pressure an entity about as solid as jello, but my idealist "both sides need to just STOP" is just that, idealism, and ideally, the militant groups would decide to stop on their own because it's the best thing to do.

...Yeah, and ideally, I'd be a legal adult and could move back to the states without getting arrested.

[Hippikos]

It would have required quite a crystal ball to forsee those turns of events over that timespan.

Not really. Even Stevie Wonder can see the trail of former allies turned enemy the US leaved behind the last 50 years, Saddam being one of them. Saddam´s Russian (and French) military supplies were mainly financed by Bush Sr´s Chile connection as you can read in the Teicher Affidavit. As usual the world around you is bit more complicated than you think.

To accuse the UN that they knew 3 years ago that the night goggles would arrive with Hezbollah is simply proposterous.

US donates Israel $9.000.000.000 annually in funds and military supply, Hezbollah gets its supply from Iran, that´s how it goes in war, for centuries. Israel destroys Lebanon and Bush pays for it ($250 mio), how nice to have a sugar daddy around...

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by Hippikos

To accuse the UN that they knew 3 years ago that the night goggles would arrive with Hezbollah is simply proposterous.

They knew that the stuff was highly sensitive military equipment you can't just buy at the local Cop Shop.

Is it that big a stretch to think they'd give it to their own milita surrogates? It's one thing to say "over 50 years many of the US allies have turned against the US, they should have known", but how hard is it to know that Hezbollah was created by Iran?

No "turning" needed there...

As I recall, Saddam's major equipment we went up against in both wars was pretty much all Russian-supplied...so much so that the street value of Russian arrnor took a nosedive after Gulf War I. Whatever he got from us was mostly used up on the Iranians, either in combat or (in the case of combat aircraft, later) flown to their airbases as some kind of strange gift.

[9th Engineer]

Who was it that proposed we just increase the death toll to 30% on all sides? It may be disturbing, but we're comming down to the choice of either doing something like that or just forgetting the entire thing is going on. That is, unless the UN decides to do their job and act as an impartial military buffer, if the US does it we'll be screamed at for acting unilaterally again. Tell me, who polices the UN when gross negligence on their part allows this sort of situation to go on and on?

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by 9th Engineer

Tell me, who polices the UN when gross negligence on their part allows this sort of situation to go on and on?

Nobody.

[tw]

Originally Posted by 9th Engineer

Who was it that proposed we just increase the death toll to 30% on all sides? It may be disturbing, but we're comming down to the choice of either doing something like that or just forgetting the entire thing is going on. That is, unless the UN decides to do their job and act as an impartial military buffer, ...

Who also noted that a UN buffer force between two sides not yet ready for peace is foolhardy? Since no attitude yet exists among Hezbollah or Israelis, then a UN buffer force will only be victims. Notice why the UN cannot get 15,000 troops. The world is not stupid. That UN resolution does not even mention reasons for the violence: prisoners held by Israel without due process, almost zero kidnapped Israeli soldiers, Sheeba Farms, the reason for so much instability in Lebanon (Israel), or even who was killing UNFIL soldiers. Peace will break out when reasons for the violence were not even address? Who would be so naive as to believe that?

Only peace force that can work on that Lebanon border is one that numbers in the hundreds of thousands including aircraft with free reign to shoot down any Lebanon or Israeli planes that cross that border. Why so aggressive? Why is a Chapter 7 force required? Because both side do not yet want peace. This made worse because no honest broker exists in the region. And the reasons for violence were even ignored in UN resolutions - the US running interference for the seventh Israeli invasion of Lebanon.

Anyone with minimal intelligence would not send his soldiers into that peace mission. Conflicted parties have not yet even acknowledged they want peace. And a UN resolution for that peace force is based in political myths - if we just ignore the reasons for violence, then they will not exist.

[jaguar]

Yes, but it's not like the equipment was given without good reason, or was given with that use in mind.

[Hippikos]

Hizbollah was created because of the Israeli occupation in Lebanon. The US and Israel should know by now that you cannot invade a country without repercussions.

Yes, Saddam used most of it against Iran and the Kurds as we know. Rumsfeld visit to Saddam was to emphasize that fact. That´s why Saddam´s removal was a major geopolitical strategic blunder by the Bush guvmint allowing Iran to become the regions most poweful nation. Bush Sr knew that geopolitical fact and left him in power. Bush Jr as we know has a mission from God and the neocons kidnapped his foreign policy with disastrous consequenses.

So, US supplies Israel, Iran supplies Hezbollah, what else is new? Whole industries depend on it. Read Pres. Eisenhowers Military Industrial Complex Speech:

"In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the militaryindustrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together."

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by Hippikos

Hizbollah was created because of the Israeli occupation in Lebanon.

Beware the passive voice. It was created by Iran as a surrogate; it didn't spring from the brow of Zeus.

[tw]

Originally Posted by MaggieL

Beware the passive voice. It was created by Iran as a surrogate; it didn't spring from the brow of Zeus.

MaggieL cannot acknowledge reality: Hezbollah was created by Lebanese in response to Israel's invasion followed by aggressive abuse of Lebanese civilians. Those same Lebanese first welcomed the Israelis with flowers and rice. Even the details - ‘flowers and rice’ - were reported in history. MaggieL must forget that detail. As Israeli soldiers abused Lebanese, then Hezbollah was created to defend Lebanon from Israel.

Why did Israel withdraw from Lebanon? Too many Israeli deaths as Hezbollah drove Israel from Lebanon. More details that MaggieL must forget when using a perspective of a world in black and white. Clearly Israelis wear white and Hezbollah wears black. Clearly the world is not about perspectives.

Then return to reality. When Israel and the 'abused victims in Lebanon' finally start negotiating, then Hezbollah will need not shop the world for tools to defend Lebanon.

Instead MaggieL says - in the great tradition of Gen Westmoreland - that all Hezbollah must be murdered so that peace will break out. That must be her conclusion when the world is about 'good verses evil'. She offers no other solution. Her world denies that Israel violence against Lebanese civilians that created Hezbollah.

MaggieL even forgets who arranged the massacre of 5000 Palestinian women and children. Clearly it must have been Hezbollah who wear black. White clad Israelis would never massacre those 5000 refugees? Not in MaggieL's world.

MaggieL must invent another boogey man: Iran created Hezbollah. So Iran also massacred those 5000 women and children? Of course. Color of clothes proves it.

Fashion sense to define evil just does not work. Hezbollah was create by Israel that invaded Lebanon (illegally) and then abused Lebanese civilians (justified by 'they are arabs; therefore they are niggers' attitude).

Notice, unlike MaggieL, I also define a solution: When Israel and the 'abused victims in Lebanon' finally start negotiating, then Hezbollah will need not shop the world for tools to defend Lebanon. But then I am not blinded by the colors 'black and white'. I am biased by reality and a world chock full of perspectives.