Oh NOW I understand why Elspode feels the nation is fascist

[Shawnee123]

Originally Posted by headsplice

Whatever you're smoking, I wish you'd share.

Amen!

[9th Engineer]

We'll bleed out while another power rises that is thinking clearly about the goal.

And what is the goal?

[warch]

Global thermonuclear war.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by 9th Engineer

And what is the goal?

control

Originally Posted by warch

fiery death

unintended consequence

[Urbane Guerrilla]

I suppose it would be easier to persuade the Cellar that America is turning fascist if anyone posting here knew any fascists personally. In one's own neighborhood, excellent; anywhere in one's county, okay enough. I don't know any. Next?

Exclude picking on this politico or that -- that's vaporthink and partisanship overdone.

[Elspode]

What...fascists are hanging out in the neighborhood grocery store? At the gas station?

Isn't it somewhat more reasonable to think that those who already *have* power and position also have a better shot at becoming fascists?

I don't have any Mexicans in my neighborhood right now. I guess that means they don't exist?

[xoxoxoBruce]

I'm not in your neighborhood either so I must be a figment of my imagination.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

I was tempted to say something like If you implode into your Schwarzchild radius on the strength of that, send me a quick goodbye note, but instead I lay down until the urge went away.

We argue a LOT, but you're not warped. As long as we keep our disagreements honest, it's good.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by Elspode

Isn't it somewhat more reasonable to think that those who already *have* power and position also have a better shot at becoming fascists?

Not really. That's still the kind of fever-swamp thinking that discredits the hotheaded radicals. This is a republic, and to be chosen by the electorate to exert power you have to show you have your ducks in a row. There are plenty of quasi-fascist fringies who try for office, some office, any office, in any general or special election you care to look at. But the fringies tally about a dozen votes apiece, which isn't even a drop in the bucket in a city like mine where voting precincts are between a thousand and twelve hundred registered voters in every one.

When you've been raised in a democracy, and not a one-party state like where Clinton came from, the political instincts you develop keep you away from fascism. The Left, out in the cold these many years, would like you not to understand that. The Left is mostly full of little round greenish things horses leave.

[xoxoxoBruce]

So you don't believe power corrupts? And absolute power corrupts absolutely?
I sure as hell do. I've seen it too many times not to believe it.

You're right in saying the obvious nut-jobs, rarely, successfully run for office. But too many prove to be just that when in power awhile.... even in America.

[richlevy]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

When you've been raised in a democracy, and not a one-party state like where Clinton came from, the political instincts you develop keep you away from fascism. The Left, out in the cold these many years, would like you not to understand that. The Left is mostly full of little round greenish things horses leave.

...while the 'core' of the Right is bringing us two useless amendments to the Constitution and Creationism.

I'd say the Right appears to have been taken over by wackos more than the Left. Of course, that's probably because the Left is so disorganized that individuals can actually make their own decisions. The Right appears to be able to build a clear consensus on even the stupidest idea.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

So you don't believe power corrupts? And absolute power corrupts absolutely?
I sure as hell do. I've seen it too many times not to believe it.

Well, yes. But here's the saving grace in how we do things: it's remarkable how the basic American political trait, that power shall be limited in scope and in duration, does such a good job of reducing that corruption. You're leader of the Free World for ten years, tops, by statute; et cetera et cetera on down the line to harbor commissioner and justice of the peace.

I've read enough political commentary for enough years to note how very often someone declares the sky will fall, is falling, or occasionally has fallen. It's like once a month! These criers notwithstanding, the sky is still about where it was. Maybe more or less clouded, maybe striking with lightning -- but I have faith in the country. I really do. I think some of my countrymen are pretty dumb, and could wish them otherwise, but for all the cries about things falling apart and the center can't hold, the advertised disasters never seem to come. There's a stability in how humans interact that the excitable columnists and talk radio hosts never seem to take into account. It is more stability, I think, than can be accounted for as people taking warning from the Chicken Littles.

[headsplice]

It hasn't happened yet, so it won't happen? Lalalalalala....I'm not listening!
Blind faith in the institutions of the US is the quickest road to bad places that I can think of. The only reason we haven't become a dictatorship over the years is because there were people that did think the sky was falling and were willing to do something about it, not because the institutions are so perfect.

[Elspode]

I'm no politician, but I think that, had I aspirations at fascist dictatorship, I'd try to keep it as subtle as possible until I had what I wanted. Better yet, if I could achieve it and still have the people only sort of halfway grumbling about the rights they used to have while they were playing their video games and watching DVDs, I'd be a damn successful fascist dictator...one to be admired and probably emulated.

[Flint]

In a very effective revolution, the "everything is okay, things aren't that bad" crowd would be some of very the first to have their fucking heads blown clean off. Then, we could get on with the business of reality.