Man Talk II - Gun thread

[wolf]

I like your style.

[Troubleshooter]

Here's another one I ran across for when up close and personal is a requirement and you don't want to have to worry about thick skinned individuals.

http://www.civil-defence.org/product...24/boz224.html

[mrnoodle]

A shoulder fired 20mm. I'm so hot right now.

[slang]

Too bad there's a Federal limit of .50 cal (12.7 mm) on all civilian cartridge firearms.

This badboy is 7.3 mm too big. ( and it would probably cost about 10k to purchase and $3 or $4 a round to shoot )

[farfromhome]

Alright ,I don't care.All of you jump on me.This fascination with guns...What does it mean?This is going to hurt.You'll be on me like flies are on shit.But...?
How many of you lock your cars?How many lock their homes?To me the gun manifestation is nothing more than a continuation of your own fears.Fears of what?I don't know.I don't know how I don't have it,but I do not.And what I'm talking about is a fear culture.And you people are SO godamn bright.Can't you see past this?

[farfromhome]

Sigh.
My key for my car is right where god intended it to be.Anywhere I go.In the ignition.Although I have had to leave my home in upstate NY,it was never locked.17 years.Culture of fear,folks.

[elSicomoro]

Originally posted by farfromhome
To me the gun manifestation is nothing more than a continuation of your own fears.

I disagree...it's a celebration of the 2nd amendment.

[slang]

Originally posted by farfromhome
And what I'm talking about is a fear culture.

Undertoad made a comment some time back that I think really hit the bulleye on the desire to own guns.

Personal empowerment.

That wasnt his whole post but that was the bottom line driving the desire to own and carry.

If there is something to be fearful of, I'll handle it. The world's problems cannot be solved with a single handgun. My handgun in my little sphere is an insurance policy. The policy premium is taking the responsibility of having a lethal weapon with you and using it only as a last resort should you need it. The policy benefit is using the handgun as a tool for your own well being. That doesnt always mean shooting someone, as I have said here many times.

I cant wait for the cops to show up if a vicious dog wants to chew my leg off. I might need that leg sometime in the future and I would most definately shoot a dog locked onto any part of my body if he was big enough to hurt me. Most of the time the dog can "read" that you know you will kick his ass sideways should he decide to bite you. The body language thing also works in the animal world.

Having to shoot a dog certainly would not make my day, I love dogs, but I love me more.

In some unlikely yet possible situations you may be able to break up some life threatening confrontation by using a handgun to shoot into the ground or the air. I wouldnt recommend this but there have been times I have prepared to make a "distractionary" shot. Fortunately none have ever been needed.
Just like in the movie Pulp Fiction, an unexpected gunshot will break most people's concentration. In some situations, just long enough for someone to get away.

There is also a certain aspect to carrying that allows people to become more involved with witnessing crimes or criminals, thus reducing their likelihood because many criminals really dont want to be seen perpetrating their crime. If I see something suspicious, as a CCW holder, I'm much more likely to just take a walk by the individual, just to look at what might be going on and see who might be around. The prevailing attitude from the general citizenry of the last 20 years or so has been to call the cops and just stay out of harms way. Trying to be a cop without actually being in law enforcement is not something any thinking person would do, but just being an active individual in some "neighborhood watch" type program is the best grass roots method of keeping crime down. If the cops are called into an area every 20 minutes for a false alarm it reduces the urgency of each individual call. I say that people should be more aware and participate more in keeping their neighborhood square. This includes being a good witness for the court system. Reducing the fear of being hurt helps the legal system work.

And if for some reason the "suspicious" person attacks you (which is very unlikely IMO ) hold your ground and draw your weapon if you have to but know that you dont have to let them kill or fuck you.

The carry of a legal weapon encourages people to be nice....communicate effectively (dont want to freak anyone out when I'm carrying because I will be going to jail ) and to be aware. There are an incredibly few incidences of illegal use of a firearm by CCW holders. The system and the philosophy works.*

So, again, this is my take on the handgun carry thing. Many of the regulars have already read this post in different forms in the past.

* - It works here in Pa and several other states that have just recently passed the "shall issue" handgun permit system.

[mrnoodle]

Originally posted by sycamore


I disagree...it's a celebration of the 2nd amendment.

But so much more. Guns make loud noises and fling bits of metal long distances at high speed. The metal bits make holes in shit. what's not to love?

Seriously, though, to respond to farfromhomes sort-of question:

The admiration of weaponry, specifically guns, stems from many sources. Firstly, there's an aesthetic quality to them. Some people find them dark and scary, but we think they're...I dunno, neat. Many of them are beautiful, in fact (although we haven't really touched on those yet).

Guns have played a vital role in the formation of our country, so there's lots of historical significance and a hazy kind of patriotic, star-spangled-banner thing going on, as well.

As to the "culture of fear," it's not a conscious keep-you-up-at-night fear. It's an awareness. Mentally sweeping potential threats under the rug doesn't make them go away. You don't hope your significant other gets to cash your life insurance policy, but you buy one all the same.

Call it a culture of readiness. The tac guys call it "living in condition yellow," a phrase coined by (I think) Massad Ayoob, who's a long-time cop and self-defense trainer. It goes way beyond the gun issue. What it means is this: The best way to keep yourself and those around you safe is to live with a constant awareness of your surroundings. You don't wait for things to jump out of bushes at you, but you mentally catalog the existence and location of the bush.

Part of this readiness (which sounds tiring, but really becomes second nature) does involve a willingness to take action against imminent danger, but it also requires the discretion to just quietly walk away before action is required. Even if you never pick up a gun in your life, you should develop that awareness.

Did you know that thieves check obituaries? It's so they know when everyone's going to be at the funeral so they can knock over the house. They might steal the guns and everything else out of the house, but they better hope I don't get home while they're doing it.

Edit: significant portions snipped because slang worded them better ^^

[farfromhome]

Originally posted by sycamore


I disagree...it's a celebration of the 2nd amendment.

Well than, Damn lets get this party on.

[JeepNGeorge]

Originally posted by farfromhome
Alright ,I don't care.All of you jump on me.This fascination with guns...What does it mean?This is going to hurt.You'll be on me like flies are on shit.But...?
How many of you lock your cars?How many lock their homes?To me the gun manifestation is nothing more than a continuation of your own fears.Fears of what?I don't know.I don't know how I don't have it,but I do not.And what I'm talking about is a fear culture.And you people are SO godamn bright.Can't you see past this?

My key is in the ignition, I sleep with the door unlocked, and I have 75+ guns.

Not everybody who owns firearms is a fear junky like you claim. Some people think they are beautiful works of art. Most of mine are what you would call 'collectors' pieces and many have not been fired. They probably will remain unfired unless 'they' try to say I can't have them any more.

[Pi]

Why do you need a .50 or a 20mm to celebrate the 2nd amendment?
And I'm shure that in the case of need most of you couldn't think about using the gun or using it correctly. Why, does it only exists in USA this silly act that everybody can have a gun an no one regulates who's owning it and using it. Never noticed that most of british cops never wear a gun because they don't need one and the fact having a gun only attracts violence from the other. The monopol of violence belongs to the State and so should the different vectors of violence.
I love guns but there's a limit!

[slang]

Originally posted by Pi
The monopol(y) of violence belongs to the State and so should the different vectors of violence.

That my friend is one of the many differences between the US and other countries. We ( like to bask in the illusion that we ) have the power to overtake this government, should it become tyrannical. Private firearms ownership is key to that (theoretical ) power.

The monopoly of violence has proven deadly for millions of law abiding citizens. There are several groups of people that fully understand the relationship between gun ownership and survival versus gun prohibition and genocide. I'm truly amazed at your quote above.

We are not on the same page here.

You Sir....are off my "cool people on the cellar" list.

[Pi]

Ok, you're right. So you fear that your government could become tyrannical and with your small .45 guns you can prevent it by killing the president. Actually, right now, I couldn't blame the murderer.
Honestly I think that those who have a gun should have to pass a test and that the caliber and the fire-rate of weapons should be reduced.
But it's your country so I just want to give my opinion.
And btw I don't want to be on your ""cool people on the cellar" list". That scares me

[xoxoxoBruce]

Recent news reports and personal experiences I've heard from people in Britain have proved that disarming the people is diasterous.