2/18/2004: Iraqi artist creates statue of US GI

[Happy Monkey]

Originally posted by mrnoodle
If Saddam rode through the fucking Reflecting Pool with an AK in one hand and the head of a 5-year-old from Topeka in the other, he would still have American apologists trembling behind their olive branches asking the UN to give him just ooonnnnne more chance.

Actually the issue is that Saddam didn't do anything to the US, which is why Bush had to come up with a justification in the first place.

[Joy]

Originally posted by xoxoxoBruce
Not in your wildest dreams. The soldiers job is to follow orders. Do the given job and try to survive as a secondary objective. It's not the soldiers job to know WHY he is there. All that shit about Mom, apple pie and the flag? Forgitaboutit. He's doing the job because he promised and he doesn't like Leavenworth. His personal beliefs don't enter into it.

Really and you know this how??

Being a military wife i guess i know nothing !!!!

[Joy]

Originally posted by mrnoodle

Unless it's John Kerry. If you're liberal, you're doing it for The Children(tm).
Feh. This thread alone is a powerful argument for draft-dodging. Why put your butt on the line when no one is going to appreciate it anyway? If Saddam rode through the fucking Reflecting Pool with an AK in one hand and the head of a 5-year-old from Topeka in the other, he would still have American apologists trembling behind their olive branches asking the UN to give him just ooonnnnne more chance.
Shit.
Not directed at you, Bruce, your quote was just a handy springboard for my rant.

Becouse if just one person does appreciate it, it is all worth it. That is what my DH says.

[Joy]

Originally posted by Happy Monkey
Actually the issue is that Saddam didn't do anything to the US, which is why Bush had to come up with a justification in the first place.

I guess he didnt do enough to his own people.
Oh and there is that little bounty he put on our military personal heads. Well actually it was on the heads of any and all of the miltitary members that served in the sand box.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Spring away Noodle, but lets not confuse the reasons people join the Army, with the reasons they do what they do, while serving in the Army. Boot camp is designed to specifically separate the two.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally posted by Joy


Really and you know this how??

Being a military wife i guess i know nothing !!!!

Think about it, that soldier in the war zone hears his seargent yell GO. Does he postulate about mom, apple pie or the flag? Hell no, he goes, as he's been trained to do, as part of a unit, part of a machine. The only other thought might be that he's scared (unless he's stupid) because that's natural, but he goes because he's a soldier, and that's what soldiers do.
In his off time he may think about the justness of the war, the reasons for it or even the reasoning against it. But when it's time to go to work, that's moot. He does what he does because that's his job and he's promised to do it.

[404Error]

So soldiers are just a bunch of mindless pawns in the game of war? Just don't forget that without these selfless patriots serving our country you wouldn't have the freedoms that we all enjoy so much. Like the freedom to express your opinions here, one I'm sure the Iraqi people could only have dreamed of before we liberated them from a dictatorial tyrant.
I served my country and am very proud of having done so. I'm just wondering how many of you served and if not, where do you get off making negative comments about those of us that have?

[OnyxCougar]

Like the freedom to express your opinions here

and then follow that up with

where do you get off making negative comments

You answered your own question.

And just so you are aware, I agree with Bruce. I have MANY family and friends that are serving/have served in all of our branches of the armed forces, and I know for a fact that you are specifically trained in Boot Camp not to question orders, but to do it, and do it NOW.

So to answer your question, Yes. Soldiers/Sailors are supposed to be mindless pawns in the game of war. Killing machines, remember? Machines do not question orders.

That doesn't mean they are stupid, nor does it mean they are without courage and bravery. I have full respect for them, and the sacrifices they make and have made for me and mine. But if a soldier is on the battlefield, and hesitates to act because he's thinking about the morality/justification of why he is there, in a combat situation, he is dead. And if you served in the military, you know that.

So get the wad of panties out of your ass and realize that no where in Bruce's posts did he say "Man, military people are fucking retards."

[Troubleshooter]

Originally posted by 404Error
So soldiers are just a bunch of mindless pawns in the game of war?

I don't see that that is being said. Bruce made it pretty clear when he said that there is a time when thinking is an option, and a time when thinking isn't.

I served my country and am very proud of having done so. I'm just wondering how many of you served and if not, where do you get off making negative comments about those of us that have?

I also don't see where there have been any negative comments about the members of the military. The military leadership? Yeah. The politicians? Yeah. Sailors, pilots, soldiers and marines? Not that I've seen.

I did my turn and haven't seen anything to shoot Bruce over yet. I haven't ruled out nailing his foot to the floor yet, but I'll give him some more time to be sure.

Edit: put an "a" where it belongs.

[Kitsune]

I also don't see where there have been any negative comments about the members of the military. The military leadership? Yeah. The politicians? Yeah. Sailors, pilots, soldiers and marines? Not that I've seen.

Where did the recent, disturbing trend of "you obviously don't support our troops because you don't agree with X" come from, anyways? And are there really people living in this country that don't support them or do denounce them just for doing their jobs?

[Happy Monkey]

There are a few people who think that the soldiers should refuse to serve if a war is unjustified. While there is an abstract attractiveness to that idea, I don't think it is a good idea in practice, and I certainly wouldn't hold any soldiers to it.

But the "you don't support the troops" thing is just a vicious rhetorical attack, designed to derail the opposing argument, forcing them to explain the fallacy. Time thus spent is time not spent making a real argument, and doesn't have the soundbite quality of the accusation.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally posted by 404Error
So soldiers are just a bunch of mindless pawns in the game of war? Just don't forget that without these selfless patriots serving our country you wouldn't have the freedoms that we all enjoy so much. Like the freedom to express your opinions here, one I'm sure the Iraqi people could only have dreamed of before we liberated them from a dictatorial tyrant.
I served my country and am very proud of having done so. I'm just wondering how many of you served and if not, where do you get off making negative comments about those of us that have?

Your confusing the reasons they join the military with the reason they fight when the time comes. I'm certainly not dissing anyone that choses to join the military. God bless them all.
BUT, I still maintain when the time comes to fight, they do what they do because they are trained to follow orders without question. If they don't, they will likely fail and maybe die.

[Troubleshooter]

Originally posted by Kitsune
I also don't see where there have been any negative comments about the members of the military. The military leadership? Yeah. The politicians? Yeah. Sailors, pilots, soldiers and marines? Not that I've seen.

Where did the recent, disturbing trend of "you obviously don't support our troops because you don't agree with X" come from, anyways? And are there really people living in this country that don't support them or do denounce them just for doing their jobs?

It comes from confusing patriotism and nationalism.

And while it may not exactly match the criteria of your question, but check this out.

http://www.godhatesamerica.com/

[Fireman]

I cannot beleive what I have been reading! I have been in Iraq for 11 months, thinking that you folks back home have been supportive of us, and believing in what we are doing is right. I have seen alot of things here, that little girl in the statue, I see that , and it reminds me of why we are here. I have the devistation here, and I have seen the Pheonix rise from the ashes. The little girl represents the hope, and the respect that they hold for us. That is how I see it. I didnt take shrapnal and bullets for you folks to belittle us, and treat us like this. I am 3rd Generation Military, I have respect for all those whose sacrifice is great, and I feel that the statue was done in good taste. Thank you for your time.

Semper Princeps!!!!!!

(Always First)

[wolf]

We're not all raging knee-jerk liberals here.

Thanks for your service, Fireman.

Man, you do both ... defend the country and run the "wrong" way when buildings are burning.

Double thanks.