Is it ever *ok* to cheat? - Page 3

Dagney · 01-16-2007, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elspode

My wedding had no such statement included on the part of either the minister or Selene and myself.

Yours didn't, and ours don't either - we wrote exactly what we wanted to say:

I *****/take you *****/ to be my partner in life/I promise to walk by your side forever/ and to love, help, and encourage you/ in all that you do./I will take time to talk with you/ to listen to you, /and to care for you/ I will share your laughter and your tears/as your partner, lover, and best friend./ Everything I am/ and everything I have is yours/ now and always.

However, that doesn't mean I'd not hang him up by his meaty bits (or admit he'd have a right to do the same to me) if I found out he was cheating.

Spexxvet · 01-16-2007, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dagney

Yours didn't, and ours don't either - we wrote exactly what we wanted to say:

I *****/take you *****/ to be my partner in life/I promise to walk by your side forever/ and to love, help, and encourage you/ in all that you do./I will take time to talk with you/ to listen to you, /and to care for you/ I will share your laughter and your tears/as your partner, lover, and best friend./ Everything I am/ and everything I have is yours/ now and always.

However, that doesn't mean I'd not hang him up by his meaty bits (or admit he'd have a right to do the same to me) if I found out he was cheating.

You wouldn't encourage him, in his cheating endeavor? You'll share his laughter and his tears, but not his naughty bits?

Dagney · 01-16-2007, 03:33 PM

I shared what I did because I was agreeing with 'Spode - not asking for ridicule. Those words are special to me - but thanks for twisting them.

That said...

Would you encourage your spouse to cheat?

I will encourage my future husband in anything and everything that he wants, as long as it does not degrade the foundation of our relationship. As long as it does not harm us, him, or myself. As long as it's for the betterment of those things that we share.

Uh, no, I don't think so. While we did not say 'forsaking all others', we both know that there will be no others - and if anyone takes a step across that well drawn boundary, a fair bit of damage has been done to the relationship.

Words you'd never hear ME say - "No, go ahead honey, go schtupp that tart - I'll be here waiting when you get home."

Words you may hear ME say - "Oh, go head honey, go schtupp that tart - I have the divorce attorney on speed dial - and I wouldn't mind half of everything - your stuff will be on the lawn when you get home"

The minute he asked me to be his significant other - there was an agreement that our relationship was exclusive - that there were no others - period. The minute he asked me to be his wife - that agreement was a little more solidified. The moment he takes me to be his wife - it's pretty much iron clad.

But that's just me - I respect the man I love. And I know he respects me.

01-16-2007, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Let me make sure this is clear. You think it is better to give up a loving, caring relationship, stable home environment, two-parent household, and break apart a family, rather than cheat?

Do you think the wife should just give it up, once in a while?

If a partner is no longer attracted to another and withholding sex, to me, that is grounds for divorce.
That is not "giving it up", she/or he does not want to be with you and you are doing them a favor.

skysidhe · 01-16-2007, 04:11 PM

I think it's cheating when an old fart hangs onto someone just because there isn't anything else.

Spexxvet · 01-16-2007, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dagney

I shared what I did because I was agreeing with 'Spode - not asking for ridicule. Those words are special to me - but thanks for twisting them.

...

Lighten up, honey.

lumberjim · 01-16-2007, 06:45 PM

oh no he di'int

Dagney · 01-16-2007, 07:02 PM

Oh, I do believe he did.

But hey, it's just not worth worrying about. A year or so ago, I'd have handed him his arse - now....I'll just ignore it.

(Ah, the rewards of growin up *G*)

Madman · 01-16-2007, 07:11 PM

On topic: Only if it is with your friends... :p

Off topic: Note: three posts in one day!

Damn! I'm on a roll!

kerosene · 01-16-2007, 10:18 PM

Iggy and Spode, I should have stayed in Kansas, and we could have all formed a commune!

To me, cheating is only cheating if dishonesty is involved. I would consider it cheating in my relationship if my husband was not honest with me about a person he was in love with and planned to leave me for. And at that point, I would realize the relationship is no longer worth continuing. I trust that he will be honest with me about this if it ever occurs. However, I am optimistic that this will not happen, since we are honest with each other and I know that he loves me and I love him. I don't expect that he will never *want* another woman. I believe that is unrealistic as it would be unrealistic for me to never *want* another man. There is also a definite level of emotional connection with other people that we recognize and free each other to experience. I know that because we give each other all the freedom we want in the relationship that there is no reason for jealousy or dishonesty. This has enriched our relationship.

Oh yeah, and our marriage vows were impromptu. I am fairly certain there was no inclusion of any of the standard vows that are heard most often in weddings. This was what was right for us.

I respect the views of others. I think LJ mentioned in a separate thread that monogamy is a social structure that we humans created (something like that). I agree and choose not to completely accept that structure, but I respect it. Having been cheated on, I remember what it felt like to expect that fidelity and I will admit (boo, hiss) that I have been dishonest about a situation of infidelity in my past, as well. I learned something from that...that for me, to expect that or have that expected of me isn't what I want.

lumberjim · 01-16-2007, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by case

Iggy and Spode, I should have stayed in Kansas, and we could have all formed a commune!

To me, cheating is only cheating if dishonesty is involved. I would consider it cheating in my relationship if my husband was not honest with me about a person he was in love with and planned to leave me for. And at that point, I would realize the relationship is no longer worth continuing. I trust that he will be honest with me about this if it ever occurs. However, I am optimistic that this will not happen, since we are honest with each other and I know that he loves me and I love him. I don't expect that he will never *want* another woman. I believe that is unrealistic as it would be unrealistic for me to never *want* another man. There is also a definite level of emotional connection with other people that we recognize and free each other to experience. I know that because we give each other all the freedom we want in the relationship that there is no reason for jealousy or

this is a thread about cheating, and that implies secrecy. if you know your spouse has a friend that they love, or if you know they are boinking someone else, and you're ok with it....then it's not really cheating, is it?

do you always feel the same way about it, or does your opinion waver? You allude to 'experiencing' other people. In thinking about this logically, I would expect that it would be easier to deal with your partner becoming emotionally attached to someone else if it were a platonic relationship. the posts elspode has shared about selene being out on dates, however, have the opposite impact on my imagination.

I think it might be harder for me to deal with it if my spouse started spending time away from me with another man.....even if I was positive that nothing physical went down....and definitely if there were. harder than dealing with a temporary infidelity, that is. neither would be any fun...as you say, if there were dishonesty involved, and it would take time to heal....I just think that it would be a whole lot easier to forgive a roll in the hay then it would to forgive a secret love on the side.

kerosene · 01-17-2007, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumberjim

this is a thread about cheating, and that implies secrecy. if you know your spouse has a friend that they love, or if you know they are boinking someone else, and you're ok with it....then it's not really cheating, is it?

Nope.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumberjim

do you always feel the same way about it, or does your opinion waver? You allude to 'experiencing' other people. In thinking about this logically, I would expect that it would be easier to deal with your partner becoming emotionally attached to someone else if it were a platonic relationship. the posts elspode has shared about selene being out on dates, however, have the opposite impact on my imagination.

Hmmm....I feel the same way about this all the time. In the beginning of our relationship it wasn't quite the same as it is now, but it has changed and I expect,accept and embrace that. Platonic relationships are cool. Platonic can mean anything you want it to. I am not sure what you are asking me, here but I hope I have sufficiently clarified.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumberjim

I think it might be harder for me to deal with it if my spouse started spending time away from me with another man.....even if I was positive that nothing physical went down....and definitely if there were. harder than dealing with a temporary infidelity, that is. neither would be any fun...as you say, if there were dishonesty involved, and it would take time to heal....I just think that it would be a whole lot easier to forgive a roll in the hay then it would to forgive a secret love on the side.

I could completely understand that it would be harder to forgive a roll in the hay than a secret love, but if there is no secret and an understanding of our expectations (or lack thereof) there is nothing to forgive. We enjoy giving each other this freedom. The way I see it: I don't really have a right to limit him to what he should experience and I don't want to be limited either.

I want to also mention that this has not been an excuse to "boink" everyone out there. Honesty with each other is not exclusive. I would never want to hurt another person for my own desires just because I have a desire to "experience" something. These things have been pretty rare.

kerosene · 01-17-2007, 12:23 AM

Wow, I am starting to feel as if I have exposed something to the cellar. It actually feels pretty good.

wolf · 01-17-2007, 01:08 AM

No. Simply, no. Even a three year old knows what cheating is, albeit in a different context, and knows it's wrong.

Shawnee123 · 01-17-2007, 08:15 AM

I like what you had to say, Dagney. I hope to have a relationship of mutual respect like that someday. Respecting, not only by not cheating, but with your words, and actions, and the way you live your life.

Through some my fault and some not my fault, I have failed to find that so far.

Cheers to you and yours!

01-16-2007, 03:33 PM	#33
Dagney The Prodigal Brat Returneth Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: North Cackalacky Posts: 1,107	I shared what I did because I was agreeing with 'Spode - not asking for ridicule. Those words are special to me - but thanks for twisting them. That said... Would you encourage your spouse to cheat? I will encourage my future husband in anything and everything that he wants, as long as it does not degrade the foundation of our relationship. As long as it does not harm us, him, or myself. As long as it's for the betterment of those things that we share. Uh, no, I don't think so. While we did not say 'forsaking all others', we both know that there will be no others - and if anyone takes a step across that well drawn boundary, a fair bit of damage has been done to the relationship. Words you'd never hear ME say - "No, go ahead honey, go schtupp that tart - I'll be here waiting when you get home." Words you may hear ME say - "Oh, go head honey, go schtupp that tart - I have the divorce attorney on speed dial - and I wouldn't mind half of everything - your stuff will be on the lawn when you get home" The minute he asked me to be his significant other - there was an agreement that our relationship was exclusive - that there were no others - period. The minute he asked me to be his wife - that agreement was a little more solidified. The moment he takes me to be his wife - it's pretty much iron clad. But that's just me - I respect the man I love. And I know he respects me. __________________ The Constitution gives every American the right to make a total fool out of himself. But that doesn't mean you need to.

01-16-2007, 06:45 PM	#37
lumberjim I can hear my ears Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 25,571	oh no he di'int __________________ This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality Embrace this moment, remember We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion ~MJKeenan

01-16-2007, 07:02 PM	#38
Dagney The Prodigal Brat Returneth Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: North Cackalacky Posts: 1,107	Oh, I do believe he did. But hey, it's just not worth worrying about. A year or so ago, I'd have handed him his arse - now....I'll just ignore it. (Ah, the rewards of growin up G) __________________ The Constitution gives every American the right to make a total fool out of himself. But that doesn't mean you need to.

01-17-2007, 01:08 AM	#44
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	No. Simply, no. Even a three year old knows what cheating is, albeit in a different context, and knows it's wrong. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

01-17-2007, 08:15 AM	#45
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	I like what you had to say, Dagney. I hope to have a relationship of mutual respect like that someday. Respecting, not only by not cheating, but with your words, and actions, and the way you live your life. Through some my fault and some not my fault, I have failed to find that so far. Cheers to you and yours! __________________ A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice. --Bill Cosby

01-16-2007, 04:11 PM	#35
skysidhe ~~Life is either a daring adventure or nothing.~~ Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 6,828	I think it's cheating when an old fart hangs onto someone just because there isn't anything else.

01-16-2007, 07:11 PM	#39
Madman has left the building. Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 455	On topic: Only if it is with your friends... :p Off topic: Note: three posts in one day! Damn! I'm on a roll!

01-16-2007, 10:18 PM	#40
kerosene Touring the facilities Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The plains of Colorado Posts: 3,476	Iggy and Spode, I should have stayed in Kansas, and we could have all formed a commune! To me, cheating is only cheating if dishonesty is involved. I would consider it cheating in my relationship if my husband was not honest with me about a person he was in love with and planned to leave me for. And at that point, I would realize the relationship is no longer worth continuing. I trust that he will be honest with me about this if it ever occurs. However, I am optimistic that this will not happen, since we are honest with each other and I know that he loves me and I love him. I don't expect that he will never want another woman. I believe that is unrealistic as it would be unrealistic for me to never want another man. There is also a definite level of emotional connection with other people that we recognize and free each other to experience. I know that because we give each other all the freedom we want in the relationship that there is no reason for jealousy or dishonesty. This has enriched our relationship. Oh yeah, and our marriage vows were impromptu. I am fairly certain there was no inclusion of any of the standard vows that are heard most often in weddings. This was what was right for us. I respect the views of others. I think LJ mentioned in a separate thread that monogamy is a social structure that we humans created (something like that). I agree and choose not to completely accept that structure, but I respect it. Having been cheated on, I remember what it felt like to expect that fidelity and I will admit (boo, hiss) that I have been dishonest about a situation of infidelity in my past, as well. I learned something from that...that for me, to expect that or have that expected of me isn't what I want.

01-17-2007, 12:23 AM	#43
kerosene Touring the facilities Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The plains of Colorado Posts: 3,476	Wow, I am starting to feel as if I have exposed something to the cellar. It actually feels pretty good.

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