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Old 02-16-2007, 01:27 AM   #1
Urbane Guerrilla
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He's certainly not going to take advice from you, tw. Your antipatriotism has been clear from the moment I rejoined the Cellar.
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Old 02-16-2007, 07:48 AM   #2
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Instead he's taken advice from great chickenhawk patriots like Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and Feith.

The majority of the US population is against the Iraq war, are these all communists?
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Old 03-20-2007, 03:44 AM   #3
tw
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From the NY Times of 20 Mar 2007:
Quote:
Army Brigade Finds Itself Stretched Thin
For decades, the Army has kept a brigade of the 82nd Airborne Division on round-the-clock alert, poised to respond to a crisis anywhere in 18 to 72 hours.

Today, the so-called ready brigade is no longer so ready. Its soldiers are not fully trained, much of its equipment is elsewhere, and for the past two weeks the unit has been far from the cargo aircraft it would need in an emergency.

Instead of waiting on standby, the First Brigade of the 82nd Airborne is deep in the swampy backwoods of this vast Army training installation, preparing to go to Iraq. Army officials concede that the unit is not capable of getting at least an initial force of several hundred to a war zone within 18 hours, a standard once considered inviolate.

The declining readiness of the brigade is just one measure of the toll that four years in Iraq — and more than five years in Afghanistan — have taken on the United States military. Since President Bush ordered reinforcements to Iraq and Afghanistan in January, roughly half of the Army’s 43 active-duty combat brigades are now deployed overseas, Army officials said. A brigade has about 3,500 soldiers.
George Jr’s legacy is safe. US can no longer respond to an emergency let alone fight a second war. Both were once considered essential to protect America. But George Jr is making America safer – for his legacy.

He is a classic 'big dic'. If the Army had the resources, then our 'big dic' administration would be starting another war. That is their political agenda as defined by Project for a New American Century.

A few years ago was a debate: whether US military doctrine (two simultaneous wars) still existed. George Jr so destroyed US military readiness as to quash that "2nd war" ability years ago. Of course mental midget's Rumsfeld and Cheney denied this. Well that debate is now moot. (Even US Eighth Army in Korea would have serious shortages of equipment and material ... and no backup; should you wonder why America suddenly wants to negotiate with N Korea). US military is now so massively diminished that even a Division Ready Brigade no longer exists.

A Division Ready Brigade is active for 18 weeks in Fort Bragg to deploy with only 18 hours notice out of Pope Air Force Base. Within hours of landing, they are expected to enter combat. This was once considered essential to American security. Even that ability is now gone.

What is necessary as "Mission Accomplished" continues well beyond 2010? Yes, George Jr's administration has already declared that "Mission Accomplished" will continue well beyond 2010. As George Jr said yesterday, "this war is still in the beginning phase". "Mission Accomplished". He was referring to the surge – is what we are expected to think.

How long has so much contempt existed for the American soldier? Well, remember Jessica Lynch and her 507th Maintenance Company? Did you read the entire story? George Jr's people made sure you did not. Col Teddy Spain needed all 20 MP Companies to provide escort for units such as Jessica's. Jessica’s unit was equipped and trained assuming MP assets would be provided. Administration mental midgets took away 17 of Col Spain’s 20 companies as being unnecessary. 507th had no heavy weapons training, no GPS, no radios, no night vision, and no escort. 27 of 33 soldiers were lost.

George Jr hopes you never learn why the 507th drove directly into an ambush in Nasiriyah. They were denied protection and escort that military planning deemed necessary. Protection denied on orders from George Jr's people. Orders came from that high.

Tom and Ray from NPR’s ‘Car Talk’ took a call from Baghdad. The caller was asking for a solution to Humvee bearing problems. Attached armor is destroying wheel bearings every three weeks. Humvees sent to Iraq were never capable of supporting that amour. Is this an isolated event? Of course not. "Making of a Quagmire". Change the details and Vietnam is now "Mission Accomplished". But you don’t need to know these 2005 realities.

Like a spread sheet, each lurker is just learning of “ 2005 Mission Accomplished”. How bad will "Mission Accomplished" be in late 2007? We will finally learn in 2010. Even US Eight Army in Korea is now at risk. The US military is so depleted by George Jr and his 'big dics' that America has even lost our firemen – “Division Ready Brigade”.

Same opinions today existed in 1968 after Tet. If history repeats, then 1968 to 1975 ... we will be massacring American soldiers uselessly until 2014. People were angry but did nothing more in 1968 as Nixon massacred another 30,000 Americans to protect his legacy.

3,000 dead Americans. 23,000 seriously wounded. So little money left that a soldier lying in his own urine could not have sheets for his bed. History says these are the good times; it will get worse.

History also says younger Cellar dwellers will be in my position in 30 years. Don’t forget how so few were posting realities and facts in 2002. You will need that experience in 2040 when a new generation of ‘big dics’ take power to massacre the American soldier for a political agenda – the ‘big dic’ mentality.

New wheel bearings every three weeks. About 10 hours of helicoprter maintenance for every 1 hour of flying. Don’t worry. We’re rich. And they are only soldiers – sacrificial soldiers. After all, they signed up for this. More important – protect George Jr’s legacy. Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, and Urbane Guerrilla will thank you.
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Old 04-02-2007, 05:56 AM   #4
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From the Kalleej Times in Dubai of 2 Apr 2007:
Quote:
Double or quits
On March 28, the venerable Saudi monarch King Abdullah bin Abdul Aziz told the Arab summit in Riyadh that the Anglo-American occupation of Iraq was illegal. The damage that this has done to America's presence in Iraq, and its credibility in the region, is immense. ...

This public snub was probably the good news. The private snub was if anything worse. King Abdullah sent his national security adviser, Prince Bandar bin Sultan, to tell President George Bush that he was a bit tied up at the moment, and therefore could not fly over for a state dinner on April 17: maybe they could do dinner another time? When your best friend is not free for dinner, it is time to look in the mirror.

The White House chose to grin and deny that any invitation had been sent, but it was impossible to deny the contents of the Abdullah speech. The State Department asked Nicholas Burns, still looking depressed after his non-talks on the nuclear deal in Delhi, to explain on television that the American presence in Iraq had UN sanction as well as the invitation of the Iraqi government. Mr Burns did not dwell on the finer points of both: that the Security Council held another view before the war began, and that the Iraqi government whose invitation he so admires did not exist then. And now comes news that young King Abdullah of Jordan has no time for dinner either. Although the Jordan monarch is so often in America that he could qualify for a frequent flyer programme were he plebeian enough to fly on a commercial liner, he too has sent word that it might be wiser to postpone a planned state visit in September. Would 2008 do?
His exact words (boldface mine) were:
Quote:
In beloved Iraq, blood is flowing between brothers, in the shadow of an illegitimate foreign occupation, and abhorrent sectarianism threatens a civil war.
That's right. It is an occupation - not liberation. This from a closest George Jr friend?

From the Jerusalem Post of 2 Apr 2007:
Quote:
Analysis: Are the Saudis seeking peace?
... if Israel thought Rice's optimistic diplomacy earlier in the week was based on some well-established US-Saudi coordination, it came as a total surprise when Jim Hoagland disclosed in The Washington Post yesterday that Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah canceled a mid-April gala dinner with President George W. Bush in the White House.

Hoagland heard from administration sources that Riyadh had decided for now to seek common ground with Iran, Hamas and Hizbullah. It now becomes understandable why the Saudis chose to strengthen Hamas, with the Mecca Agreement, at the expense of Mahmoud Abbas, who just became politically even more sidelined.

If Saudi Arabia has decided to distance itself from the US at this time, then how could Washington expect that now the time was ripe for a Saudi-Israeli rapprochement under an American umbrella?

... What is shaping Saudi Arabia's new diplomatic activism is the rapidly expanding Iranian threat and the weakness of the Western response.
Clear is an entire region rejecting (apparently as irrelevant) George Jr and his wacko extremists. Jordan and Saudi Arabia, considered America's closest Arab allies, have literally backhandedly slapped George Jr's face - and done so publicly so that you know it. Kings of Saudi Arabia and Jordan both cancel dinners? No way around it. That is a direct snub of the scumbag president who has zero credibility in the world.

But it gets worse. Up in Poland, a very pro-American defense minister Radek Sikorski has lost his job. From the Economist of 31 Mar 2007:
Quote:
Iraq explains why 51% of Poles opposed the missile-defence plan in one recent survey, says Radek Silorksi, an Atlanticist Pole who recently lost his job as defense minister amid a row over hot exactly to negotiate with the United States over missile defences.

... says Mr Sikorski: "This is blowback from Iraq. We used to take things on trust from the United States in the security field" - but that is no longer the case.
George Jr policy was to 'not do as Clinton'. Clinton's Arab/Israeli shuttle diplomacy, et al were condemned, as George Jr people repeatedly said, because Clinton did it. Suddenly Rice is trying to rescue concepts once called the Oslo Accords by doing what? Shuttle diplomacy. Suddenly talks with N Korea are being conducted just as Clinton did ten years earlier - a new treaty almost exactly like one originally negotiated by Carter and vocally rejected by neocons from Project for a New American Century. Suddenly what Clinton was doing is now acceptable?

Too little too late. From the Associated Press of 1 Apr 2007:
Quote:
Nancy Pelosi, speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives, will convey a message to Syria from Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, that Israel is interested in peace if Damascus stops supporting terrorism, an Israeli official said Sunday.

Pelosi met Olmert Sunday during the Israel part of her Mideast tour, which has drawn
criticism from the White House because of her planned stop in Syria.

"Pelosi is conveying that Israel is willing to talk if they (Syria) would openly take steps to stop supporting terrorism," Olmert spokeswoman Miri Eisin said.
Why is Pelosi doing Shuttle diplomacy? Israel also has little faith in what Rice had to say. The region was ripe for peace when 'big dics' decided to fix things with preemption. Never forget what a Norwegian foreign minister predicted in the first months of the George Jr administration: George Jr would undermine the Oslo Accords. And, of course, that is exactly what the mental midget did.

Why use Pelosi as the negotiator? She is the closest thing Israel can find to an American honest broker; someone who wants peace? Why couldn't Olmert have done same with Condi Rice who was just there last week? George Jr would not know peace if it bit him in the nose he once used for cocaine.

What is the White House response? White House mental midgets tell Pelosi to not convey any message from Israel to Syria. Why is the White House so fearful of peace?

Do not expect anything good to come of events here. A message about 'stopping terrorism' is only a message of 'maybe we can talk'. Nothing more. But the backhanded face slaps of George Jr by Arab leaders is long overdue. Both King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia and King Abdullah II of Jordan canceled visits with one of America's greatest 'worst president'.

Meanwhile, 15 British hostages are now caught up in America's 'big dic' threats - war games conducted in the Persian Gulf off Iran's coast. As Martha Raddatz of ABC News noted:
Quote:
U.S. naval officials in Bahrain told ABC News that the operation was hastily planned after the 15 Britons were seized Friday, yet the Bush administration would not say publicly that this is the case.
Military operations intentionally created upon White House orders - as if a classic 'big dic' response would solve anything. Military threats made it more difficult for moderate Iranians to gain the upper hand and end an undesirable hostage standoff.

What has now arrived in the Gulf? More US Navy ships including aircraft carriers USS Bataan (of New Orleans / Katrina fame) and her sister ship USS Boxer. Why Marine assault ships and so many mine sweepers? 'Big dic' neocons believe in preemption rather than intelligent negotiation. Even Poland - once most trusting and supportive of any thing American now say Americans cannot be trusted. But you cannot tell that even to 'big dic' advocates in the Cellar. Their response is akin to something about jealousy of Americans or some hidden agenda. The only thing hidden is intelligence among George Jr supporters. When only Pelosi is trusted enough to deliver a message? When even Kings of Jordan and Saudi Arabia are *publicly* too busy for a state dinner?

Last edited by tw; 04-02-2007 at 06:02 AM.
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Old 04-03-2007, 11:33 AM   #5
piercehawkeye45
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The 9/11 conspiracy has so many variations you can't just disprove one. I'm pretty sure the bombs in the WTC are pretty much busted by real engineers along with most of the other main critiques but you can't prove that the US didn't have anything to do with it.
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Old 04-03-2007, 11:37 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45 View Post
The 9/11 conspiracy has so many variations you can't just disprove one.
And IMHO you can't prove any of them.
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Old 04-12-2007, 12:52 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45 View Post
The 9/11 conspiracy has so many variations you can't just disprove one. I'm pretty sure the bombs in the WTC are pretty much busted by real engineers along with most of the other main critiques but you can't prove that the US didn't have anything to do with it.
Bombs? What bombs? You probably believe that a missle struck the pentagon too?

Do a little a research on the pentagon, and read the interviews with the two firefighters that were there at the helicopter landing pad. (In one of the photos taken that day, you can see a burning fire truck.) They will tell you it was PLANE they saw. And have the burns on their backs from running away!
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Old 04-13-2007, 01:40 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by SquadRat1 View Post
Bombs? What bombs? You probably believe that a missle struck the pentagon too?

Do a little a research on the pentagon, and read the interviews with the two firefighters that were there at the helicopter landing pad. (In one of the photos taken that day, you can see a burning fire truck.) They will tell you it was PLANE they saw. And have the burns on their backs from running away!
When in my post did I say I believe in the 9/11 conspiracy?

The actual quote you quoted me from says "I'm pretty sure the bombs in the WTC is busted" meaning that I don't believe in it and have evidence that supports my opinion. Don't quote me and accuse me of saying one thing when my post clearly says the other.
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Old 04-03-2007, 11:42 AM   #9
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You can prove them but the ones you can prove most likely never happened for obvious reasons.

If the US was involved in 9/11, I am 99% sure we would never find out or couldn't prove it but you technically could prove it. You can never prove that they didn't though.

It is basically like the "is there a god" debate. If a god shows itself then, yes, it is proven but that will really never happen so you can't really prove that god exists unless that happens. It also goes both ways with you can't prove that a god doesn't exist.
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Old 04-03-2007, 11:50 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45 View Post
You can prove them but the ones you can prove most likely never happened for obvious reasons.

If the US was involved in 9/11, I am 99% sure we would never find out or couldn't prove it but you technically could prove it. You can never prove that they didn't though.

It is basically like the "is there a god" debate. If a god shows itself then, yes, it is proven but that will really never happen so you can't really prove that god exists unless that happens. It also goes both ways with you can't prove that a god doesn't exist.
Hence the basis of all conspiracy theory. Voids that allow others to fill in and make connections that do not exist. But because there is enough mistrust among all governments or controlling organizations there are people out there that will believe anything. Well that is until you point out the GLARING idiocy in their thinking, hence my example above about the airplanes in Penn and the Pentagon.
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Old 04-03-2007, 11:58 AM   #11
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From looking through different conspiracies I have found two similarities. First, everyone one of them want the conspiracies to be true and they all think they are seeing things that everyone else is missing, making them to try to further see things that aren't there.

There are some very good questions regarding the 9/11 conspiracy (the fact that Bush needed 9/11 to do just about everything he has done so far) but that isn't proof by any means.
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Old 04-11-2007, 07:55 PM   #12
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From The Washington Post of 11 Apr 2007:
Quote:
3 Generals Spurn the Position of War 'Czar'
Bush Seeks Overseer For Iraq, Afghanistan

The White House wants to appoint a high-powered czar to oversee the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan with authority to issue directions to the Pentagon, the State Department and other agencies, but it has had trouble finding anyone able and willing to take the job, according to people close to the situation.

At least three retired four-star generals approached by the White House in recent weeks have declined to be considered for the position, the sources said, underscoring the administration's difficulty in enlisting its top recruits to join the team after five years of warfare that have taxed the United States and its military.

"The very fundamental issue is, they don't know where the hell they're going," said retired Marine Gen. John J. "Jack" Sheehan, a former top NATO commander who was among those rejecting the job. Sheehan said he believes that Vice President Cheney and his hawkish allies remain more powerful within the administration than pragmatists looking for a way out of Iraq. "So rather than go over there, develop an ulcer and eventually leave, I said, 'No, thanks,' " he said.
Nothing new in a report that confirms what the generals have long been saying quietly. This has long been a problem for George Jr and especially under Rumsfeld. An administration that overtly mocked even basic military doctrine is still dominated by the same wacko mental midgets.

No accident that the administration had to reach way down to Lt Gen Sanchez to find a commander for "Mission Accomplished". Suspicion remains so strong that the administration had to reach out to a Pacific based Admiral for a Central Command commander. So many previous generals remember what happened to Generals Shelton, Shinseki, Keane, Garner, Caffery, Schoomaker, Myers, and others.

Meanwhile, why a Czar for "Mission Accomplished" and Afghanistan? That is the job of Central Command's commander? Or is this Admiral not able to run both Central Command wars? Why another layer of bureacracy? Or must Central Command prepare for a third war? Who would an Admiral conduct attacks against?

Since 85% of all problems are directly traceable to top management, then why would anyone work for an administration with so much contempt for the American soldier? Why would the administration need another general - another level of bureacracy? The obvious part is why so many generals don't want to work for George Jr's administration - where contempt for basic military doctrine is so extensive.
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Old 04-11-2007, 09:01 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by tw View Post
Suspicion remains so strong that the administration had to reach out to a Pacific based Admiral for a Central Command commander. So many previous generals remember what happened to Generals Shelton, Shinseki, Keane, Garner, Caffery, Schoomaker, Myers, and others.
Well, the administration has a pretty narrow candidate profile- someone smart enough to make it to 4 star general and dumb enough to take the job.

Since so many soldiers are already being recruited from the ranks of non-citizens, maybe they'll offer the job to a general from Mexico or South America. I'm sure Cheney probably has some friends from the old military junta days in Chile. He should ask one of them.

Who would want to take the job knowing that the White House will put it's own agenda above dealing with the real situation and will also attempt to shift attention (and blame) away from themselves onto whoever fills the slot. In effect, they will order the 'czar' to 'stay the course' and then tell everyone that they had no input and that it was the "czar's" idea since he is ostensibly the one in charge.

Between this and the EPA debacle in the supreme court, it appears that the administration wants the power, but not when it comes with responsibility and accountability.
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Old 04-12-2007, 12:01 PM   #14
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I just read a great quote from Lee Iacocca's new book, Where Have All The Leaders Gone?

Quote:
Am I the only guy in this country who's fed up with what's happening? Where the hell is our outrage? We should be screaming bloody murder. We've got a gang of clueless bozos steering our ship of state right over a cliff, we've got corporate gangsters stealing us blind, and we can't even clean up after a hurricane much less build a hybrid car. But instead of getting mad, everyone sits around and nods their heads when the politicians say, "Stay the course."

Stay the course? You've got to be kidding. This is America, not the damned Titanic. I'll give you a sound bite: Throw the bums out!

You might think I'm getting senile, that I've gone off my rocker, and maybe I have. But someone has to speak up. I hardly recognize this country anymore. The President of the United States is given a free pass to ignore the Constitution, tap our phones, and lead us to war on a pack of lies. Congress responds to record deficits by passing a huge tax cut for the wealthy (thanks, but I don't need it). The most famous business leaders are not the innovators but the guys in handcuffs. While we're fiddling in Iraq, the Middle East is burning and nobody seems to know what to do. And the press is waving pom-poms instead of asking hard questions. That's not the promise of America my parents and yours traveled across the ocean for. I've had enough. How about you?

I'll go a step further. You can't call yourself a patriot if you're not outraged. This is a fight I'm ready and willing to have.
Tell it Lee!
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Old 04-12-2007, 05:22 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by richlevy View Post
Who would want that job knowing that the White House will put it's own political agenda above the real situation and will also attempt to shift attention. Who wants a job that will only get them the blame? In effect, they will order the 'czar' to 'stay the course' and then tell everyone that they had no input and that it was the "czar's" idea since he is ostensibly the one in charge.
What was always more important? Early in 2003, the White House had White House spokesmen assigned to Central Command public information offices just so the message was correct. Realities are secondary when MBAs and lawyers make the decisions. (Same people who said global warming does not exist and that Man to Mars will advance science.)

Humvees had no armor. Why? "Mission Accomplished". If we sent armor kits, then that would be an admission that "Mission Accomplished" had not happened. The message was more important than realities. Therefore soldiers died.

A soldier asks Rumsfeld why so few armored humvees. Rumsfeld said the armor was being delivered as fast as possible. Again, a message was more important than reality. Company that made those armor kits said they could increase production by something like 400 per month - but Rumsfeld would not order it. Why? The message was “Mission Accomplished”. Therefore more soldiers died.

Message said evil Baathists must be removed. Where did military doctrine even from 500 BC (Art of War) ever appear in that message? Therefore Baathists, teachers, electric utility workers, government officials, police, military, .... all were fired because of the message. Therefore 'the message' created an insurgency.

The message said Saddam has WMDs everywhere. Better to leave those ammo dumps alone. Message was more important than reality. Therefore the country remains chock full of munitions to arm an insurgency.

Col Spain needed his twenty MP companies to perform his job. He got three. Why? The message was that the Iraqis would welcome occupation forces. When that did not happen, then the 507th Maintenance Company (Jessica Lynch) was virtually wiped out. They were deployed with no radios, no GPS, and without the MP escorts they were equipped to expect and that would have provided protection. Message was that Jessica Lynch was shot and captured while firing her weapon. More lies because the message is always more important than reality.

The message was “There’s no question but that in those regions where pockets of dead-enders are trying to reconstitute”. Wolfowitz repeated the same message on Capitol Hill: “remnant of the old regime”; that resistance was almost eliminated. Therefore reality - a massive American created insurgency was growing and killing Americans in increasing numbers. An insurgency created by Bremer and the George Jr administration then was renamed Al Qaeda. Again the message was more important than reality. Label them as bogeymen rather than angry Iraqis who wanted Americans gone.

After October 2003, Americans were being attacked 1500 and 3000 times every day. The message from Rumsfeld was, "We're in a low intensity war that needs to be won, and we intend to win it." Over 1000 attacks every day is low intensity? But reality was contrary to the message. So many Americans had so much contempt for the troops as to believe the message.

By mid-October, the insurgency was obviously spiking. Instead US commanders were planning for troop reductions to 100,000 the next summer and something like 40,000 by next year. Why? The message was Iraqis were happy to be liberated - when their lives had never been worse. But again, the message is more important than reality.

By this point, after obviously lying about WMD, one might say, “Fool me once; shame on you. Fool me twice; shame on me.” Instead, majority of American were believing the message; ignoring reality; blaming the press for being too negative.

"Mission Accomplished" was never justified by a smoking gun. It has no strategic objective. Therefore it has no exit strategy. All this is now being demanded by Congress that wants milestones. George Jr is fighting and obstructing what the military needs. No strategic objective means victory is not possible - Vietnam deja vue complete with contempt for the troops.

Wait... wait... I think I see light at the end of the tunnel. No. That's someone looking for electricity in Baghdad. Why would anyone with intelligence want to work for an administration enchanted by their own message? Why would they want to accept blame when so many Americans would not even see through “the message” from a compulsive liar?

A “Mission Accomplished” Czar must ignore reality to promote the President Cheney message.
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