Do You Own a Gun?

[lumberjim]

!

[Radar]

My rights have nothing to do with the Constitution. My rights don't come from the government. I was BORN with the right to own any number of any kind of gun I want without any government oversight or permission.

The Constitution merely protects the rights we're born with and even if the 2nd amendment were stricken from the Constitution entirely, I'd still have that right.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Intelligent people understand, and know I'm right. You can keep going on and on and on, you won't make any more sense.

What would you know about intelligent people other than how to bother us with annoying drivel?

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by Radar

My rights have nothing to do with the Constitution. My rights don't come from the government. I was BORN with the right to own any number of any kind of gun I want without any government oversight or permission.

Any type of gun, or any type of weapon? Nukes? Bioweapons?

Originally Posted by Ibram

I have a question, Radar...

With all your absolutist spiels about rights and how nobody can or cant tell you to do something...

Let's say I'm your next-door neighbor. We're on really good terms, as good neighbors should be, and everything's fine. Then one day you exercise your right as a human being to own arms and buy an RPG launcher (or something of the same level, you get what I'm saying) that you don't really need, but that you simply want to have. I dont like this much; the very idea of a weapon that could easily blow up a car or even house sitting in the garage next door is just downright unsettling. I talk to the rest of the neighbors on the street and they kinda agree with me. So I knock on your door and ask nicely if you could kinda, if its not too much trouble, get rid of the weapon. What do you do? Defy the neighborhood and sit on your porch with it loaded and ready for any opposition, in the face of everything just for the sake of it, or, to assuage the fears of your worried friends and neighbors, sell it?

That's what society is. Sometimes we have to make sacrifices, put limits on ourselves, about what we do. Thats why some limits on gun ownership are necessary, for the mentally ill or incompetent, criminals, etc, and reasonable limits imposed on what's simply too powerful or too dangerous for personal ownership.
The only question is where to draw the line.


(since I know all you people are downright CRAZY about gun threads (i swear these threads set you off worse than a matador to a bull) and all, keep in mind that I'm PRO-gun rights, dont flip out at ME for this - i'm just sayin', you know)

Wrong, that is not what "society" is, that is a pure democracy, which is mob rule.
Franklin described it accurately. "Two lions and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner".
The majority should NEVER be able to remove rights from a minority. Rights, should never be up for a vote.
Many think any kind of fire arm is too "powerful" to own, which is ridiculous.

Every handgun/shotgun I have ever purchased I did so with the intention of never using it to harm anyone.
I hope to never harm anyone in any way.
If I have to protect myself I will and want to be able to if I have to, but hope never to be placed in that position by someone again.
That is not, however, up to me.

[Aliantha]

OK. Here's a concession. Accepting that normal rational sane people should be able to carry guns legally with all the permits etc, and discounting all the accidents that stem from this as simply accidents just like misspelling and drunk driving and fat people; what is being done about the massive number of people who have illegal guns or own them illegally. Or are trafficking guns to minors or are committing crimes with guns etc?

This is really the crux of the problem if you accept that everyone should have the right to own a gun...isn't it?

[Aliantha]

Oh and yeah I know I said I wasn't going to talk in gun threads anymore, but I broke that rule already when I wanted bruce and spex to stop fighting, and look where that got me.

Anyway, I just wanted to ask that one question - well two actually - without emotion.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

I don't know what happened when you had your little breakdown, or whatever, but you've been a dick ever since you came back. Just stop.

I wouldn't have to if you weren't being such an asshole with you stupid illogical claims and lying about me, Fuck you.

[Ibby]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

Wrong, that is not what "society" is, that is a pure democracy, which is mob rule.
Franklin described it accurately. "Two lions and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner".
The majority should NEVER be able to remove rights from a minority. Rights, should never be up for a vote.
Many think any kind of fire arm is too "powerful" to own, which is ridiculous.

Every handgun/shotgun I have ever purchased I did so with the intention of never using it to harm anyone.
I hope to never harm anyone in any way.
If I have to protect myself I will and want to be able to if I have to, but hope never to be placed in that position by someone again.
That is not, however, up to me.

No, that ISN'T mob rule. They arent coming with torches and pitchforks telling you to get rid of it; they're coming nicely and asking you to please get rid of it. Theyre asking, not telling. To be part of society, you need to make sacrefices. You dont have to make the sacrifice - but if you want to be part of the neighborhood, you might wanna make nice with the neighbors.

[xoxoxoBruce]

If they are asking, and not telling, you don't have to give up anything to be part of society. If they make it conditional, then they are telling.

[Ibby]

"IF you give up the guns, THEN we wont be scared of you.

if you want us (or dont mind us) being scared of you, go ahead and keep them."

(note once again that this isn't how I think, only my take on the situation and my take on how some people think)

Originally Posted by Aliantha

OK. Here's a concession. Accepting that normal rational sane people should be able to carry guns legally with all the permits etc, and discounting all the accidents that stem from this as simply accidents just like misspelling and drunk driving and fat people; what is being done about the massive number of people who have illegal guns or own them illegally. Or are trafficking guns to minors or are committing crimes with guns etc?

This is really the crux of the problem if you accept that everyone should have the right to own a gun...isn't it?

It seems that the "crux of the problem" is that a lot of people seem to be under the mistaken impression that removing the rights of law abiding citizens will, somehow, inhibit the actions of criminals.
Even worse, they cannot see the magnificent flaw in this logic.

Originally Posted by Ibram

No, that ISN'T mob rule. They arent coming with torches and pitchforks telling you to get rid of it; they're coming nicely and asking you to please get rid of it. Theyre asking, not telling. To be part of society, you need to make sacrefices. You dont have to make the sacrifice - but if you want to be part of the neighborhood, you might wanna make nice with the neighbors.

Oh, ok then, I would just say "no, thank you". Simple enough.

[Aliantha]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

It seems that the "crux of the problem" is that a lot of people seem to be under the mistaken impression that removing the rights of law abiding citizens will, somehow, inhibit the actions of criminals.
Even worse, they cannot see the magnificent flaw in this logic.

Well that wasn't really an answer rkz. I already know what a lot of people seem to think.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

I wouldn't have to if you weren't being such an asshole with you stupid illogical claims and lying about me, Fuck you.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

If someone broke in your house and threatened to kill you with a baseball bat, wouldn't you use any means at your disposal to defend yourself? Of course you would.
...

Fuck yourself, hypocrite.

[xoxoxoBruce]

I know one thing they can do.
In order to buy a gun you have to pass an instant background check. It is a violation of federal law to attempt to buy a gun if know you are ineligible to own one. Over the years hundreds of thousands of people have been prevented from buying a gun by this system. Guess how many have been prosecuted for violation of this federal law? ZERO.