Guns don't kill people .... - Page 28

henry quirk · 08-31-2012, 09:24 AM

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/08/28...licy:%20School

xoxoxoBruce · 09-03-2012, 09:43 PM

Politically correct gone wild.

Ibby · 09-03-2012, 09:48 PM

but it's not political correctness at all. it's out-and-out ableism. it's a clear assault on the rights of the deaf and the disabled. that's the opposite of political correctness, isn't it?

xoxoxoBruce · 09-03-2012, 10:10 PM

You could make a case for that, but most people would give you the stink eye and walk away muttering about Ivy league twits.

It's stupid fucking behavior by people who want to be politically correct (or fear not to be), following rules set by people who are trying to be politically correct (or fear not to be).
Nobody want to make a logical judgment call for fear of being crucified. Just pass the blame on to faceless zero tolerance rules, no matter how inappropriate for the situation. I realize they worry about their jobs or litigation, but these gutless assholes make me sick.
I'm willing to bet, in a private one on one conversation, every one of the people involved with this would admit it's stupid bullshit.

Clodfobble · 09-03-2012, 10:16 PM

I'm not sure it has anything to do with his being deaf. If the kid's parents had named him Gunner, would the school also have an issue? I suspect they would.

[Devil's advocate tangent]And even then, there is a moderate line--what if they'd named him Motherfucker? I think most would agree that, at SOME point, it doesn't matter if it's his name, it's still unacceptable. [/tangent] Anyway, this is clearly the type of school that has their panties in a wad about everything, not just deaf handsigns.

Happy Monkey · 09-03-2012, 10:26 PM

It's not political correctness; it's zero tolerance. They're different issues. You can have zero tolerance on a politically correct subject, but this is zero tolerance for violence.

And I'm with you all the way on zero tolerance.

xoxoxoBruce · 09-03-2012, 10:34 PM

And this ridiculous bullshit doesn't come from trying to be politically correct? Horeshit, when I went to school there was zero tolerance on violence. They didn't tolerate it. Period. Not being able to shape your hand like a gun and pew pew pew on the playground has nothing to do with violence. It's about control, shaping body and soul into politically correct minions.

ZenGum · 09-03-2012, 10:52 PM

Good thing his family name isn't Raper.

piercehawkeye45 · 09-03-2012, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

And this ridiculous bullshit doesn't come from trying to be politically correct? Horeshit, when I went to school there was zero tolerance on violence. They didn't tolerate it. Period. Not being able to shape your hand like a gun and pew pew pew on the playground has nothing to do with violence. It's about control, shaping body and soul into politically correct minions.

The problem with zero tolerance is that it is very easy to fall down a slippery slope. First it starts out as physical violence. Then, some messed kid up draws a picture of students shooting a teacher and it gets found. The logical outcome is to punish the student justifying themselves with "zero tolerance" on violence, which I would say is logical in that particular situation. Then, since they punished a kid for the threat of violence, that gets expanded to "zero tolerance" on any form of violence, whether it be a student harmlessly drawing a picture of a gun or whatever. Its stupid because there is no end to it. I can get just keep getting pushed further and further.

BigV · 09-04-2012, 12:28 PM

I'd seen this story a couple days ago and raged at the television (and anyone in earshot) about the idiocy of such a stand taken by the school district. But I seem to be a little late to the story in this thread. Here's my take on it.

A little background first. My eldest son is deaf. I've been involved, though not immersed in Deaf Culture for 25 years. I'm slow but functionally fluent in sign language. I've dealt with school administrators and teachers and other employees for many years. I've been helped by and hindered by various policies at various times.

Good grief.

All of the comments above indicating disdain for "zero tolerance" policies are right on target as far as I'm concerned. Every one of them is just a bureaucratic fig leaf for "zero judgement". Of course I don't want violence in my kids' school. Of course I don't want weapons in my kids' schools. Of course I don't want drugs in my kids' schools. But each of these, and practically any other fairly wide category, has exceptions that are acceptable. And there are endless examples of specific objects or actions that, in context, are perfectly acceptable, but could, in a different context, run afoul of some "zero tolerance" definition. This story is a perfect example.

The problem is not his name. Nor his name sign. Nor is it a policy that restricts weapons. The problem is very stupid people opening their mouths and letting the stupid out. I scanned around a bit and found examples of his family signing his name sign. There's No. Way. In. Hell. that it's anything like a threat. In the video at the link I've included here are a couple scenes where the sign is made. Watch it, judge for yourself. It's not a threat and it's not a violation of anything. It's the kid's name for fucking fuck's sake. That's my factual refutation of the stupid that leaked out of the stupid people.

...

My other more emotional reactions to this story make me glad I'm not closer to Grand Island, Nebraska. I'd like to be at that PTA meeting or School District meeting to tell everyone in the room how I feel about it. There might be some of these stupid people in the room, but I doubt they'd get it. His sign isn't even the letter H, it's the letter R (the crossed fingers, like you might make behind your back when you're telling a lie). I have a member of my extended family named Gunnar (those crazy Norwegians). That's his freakin name. What in the world would the school do with that? Obviously NOTHING. The double standard this case represents makes me incandescent with anger.

As I followed up on this story, I found this news report. It seems that the school district is in full reverse on this subject, saying "Grand Island Public Schools is not requiring any current student with a hearing impairment to change his or her sign language name."

O.R.L.Y.

Where did this story come from then? The Liberal Mainstream Media? I hope the parents get satisfaction on this case. This isn't a little bit of a problem on both sides like many other issues. This is all, *all* on the school district and those who open their mouths on their behalf to let the stupid out.

xoxoxoBruce · 09-06-2012, 04:48 AM

.

Spexxvet · 12-13-2012, 07:59 AM

Quote:

The man who killed two people and seriously wounded a third in a crowded Oregon mall Tuesday was identified Wednesday, the Associated Press reports.

Shortly before 3:30 p.m. Tuesday, Jacob Tyler Roberts, 22, walked into a Portland mall carrying a long AR-15 semi-automatic rifle, according to police reports.

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/...fter-killing-2

This guy probably wanted to use a bat or a knife, he could have fucked up way more people if he did.

glatt · 12-13-2012, 08:32 AM

I thought I read that he stole the gun from a friend. So any background check or waiting period type of regulation wouldn't have worked here. The only way to prevent this would be to completely ban guns.

And I'm glad he used a long rifle in the mall. It's serious looking, but in a confined space like a mall, a long rifle is a bad choice for doing serious damage. A handgun or some sort of short barrel would have been much worse. Look at the numbers. Only 2 dead. Terrible, but it could have been much worse.

I expect that this guy will be found to by mentally ill. That's the real story. We need to do a better job as a society of identifying and treating the mentally ill before they do stuff like this. I think it ties in to affordable health care. You can attack this problem from the health care side instead of the gun grab side and probably be more effective.

The gun debate is over. The Supreme Court ruled a couple years ago when it said that the DC gun ban was unconstitutional.

toranokaze · 12-14-2012, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigV

Where did this story come from then? The Liberal Mainstream Media? I hope the parents get satisfaction on this case. This isn't a little bit of a problem on both sides like many other issues. This is all, *all* on the school district and those who open their mouths on their behalf to let the stupid out.

There is no liberal bias it is a bias towards laziness and sensationalism, which this reeks of both.

**************************************************
The last three shoots have been done by people whom have had mental health issues and were not treated for them.
We don't have a gun problem in the US we have a mental health care problem

infinite monkey · 12-14-2012, 10:01 AM

Where was the law-abidin' gun-totin' heroes ready to pull out their concealed carry and pop a cap in the skull of these nutjobs? They never seem to be around. If they are, they're scared, or realize the danger of shooting into crowds.

08-31-2012, 09:24 AM	#406
henry quirk maskless: yesterday, today, tomorrow Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 2,162	make of this what you will... http://www.torontosun.com/2012/08/28...licy:%20School __________________ like the other guy sez: 'not really back, blah-blah-blah...'

09-03-2012, 09:43 PM	#407
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Politically correct gone wild. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

09-03-2012, 09:48 PM	#408
Ibby erika Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: "the high up north" Posts: 6,127	but it's not political correctness at all. it's out-and-out ableism. it's a clear assault on the rights of the deaf and the disabled. that's the opposite of political correctness, isn't it? __________________ not really back, you didn't see me, i was never here shhhhhh

09-03-2012, 10:10 PM	#409
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	You could make a case for that, but most people would give you the stink eye and walk away muttering about Ivy league twits. It's stupid fucking behavior by people who want to be politically correct (or fear not to be), following rules set by people who are trying to be politically correct (or fear not to be). Nobody want to make a logical judgment call for fear of being crucified. Just pass the blame on to faceless zero tolerance rules, no matter how inappropriate for the situation. I realize they worry about their jobs or litigation, but these gutless assholes make me sick. I'm willing to bet, in a private one on one conversation, every one of the people involved with this would admit it's stupid bullshit. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

09-03-2012, 10:16 PM	#410
Clodfobble UNDER CONDITIONAL MITIGATION Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 20,012	I'm not sure it has anything to do with his being deaf. If the kid's parents had named him Gunner, would the school also have an issue? I suspect they would. [Devil's advocate tangent]And even then, there is a moderate line--what if they'd named him Motherfucker? I think most would agree that, at SOME point, it doesn't matter if it's his name, it's still unacceptable. [/tangent] Anyway, this is clearly the type of school that has their panties in a wad about everything, not just deaf handsigns. __________________ My book My other book My spirit animal

09-03-2012, 10:26 PM	#411
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	It's not political correctness; it's zero tolerance. They're different issues. You can have zero tolerance on a politically correct subject, but this is zero tolerance for violence. And I'm with you all the way on zero tolerance. __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

09-03-2012, 10:34 PM	#412
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	And this ridiculous bullshit doesn't come from trying to be politically correct? Horeshit, when I went to school there was zero tolerance on violence. They didn't tolerate it. Period. Not being able to shape your hand like a gun and pew pew pew on the playground has nothing to do with violence. It's about control, shaping body and soul into politically correct minions. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

09-03-2012, 10:52 PM	#413
ZenGum Doctor Wtf Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Badelaide, Baustralia Posts: 12,861	Good thing his family name isn't Raper. __________________ Shut up and hug. MoreThanPretty, Nov 5, 2008. Just because I'm nominally polite, does not make me a pussy. Sundae Girl.

09-04-2012, 12:28 PM	#415
BigV Goon Squad Leader Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 27,063	I'd seen this story a couple days ago and raged at the television (and anyone in earshot) about the idiocy of such a stand taken by the school district. But I seem to be a little late to the story in this thread. Here's my take on it. A little background first. My eldest son is deaf. I've been involved, though not immersed in Deaf Culture for 25 years. I'm slow but functionally fluent in sign language. I've dealt with school administrators and teachers and other employees for many years. I've been helped by and hindered by various policies at various times. Good grief. All of the comments above indicating disdain for "zero tolerance" policies are right on target as far as I'm concerned. Every one of them is just a bureaucratic fig leaf for "zero judgement". Of course I don't want violence in my kids' school. Of course I don't want weapons in my kids' schools. Of course I don't want drugs in my kids' schools. But each of these, and practically any other fairly wide category, has exceptions that are acceptable. And there are endless examples of specific objects or actions that, in context, are perfectly acceptable, but could, in a different context, run afoul of some "zero tolerance" definition. This story is a perfect example. The problem is not his name. Nor his name sign. Nor is it a policy that restricts weapons. The problem is very stupid people opening their mouths and letting the stupid out. I scanned around a bit and found examples of his family signing his name sign. There's No. Way. In. Hell. that it's anything like a threat. In the video at the link I've included here are a couple scenes where the sign is made. Watch it, judge for yourself. It's not a threat and it's not a violation of anything. It's the kid's name for fucking fuck's sake. That's my factual refutation of the stupid that leaked out of the stupid people. ... My other more emotional reactions to this story make me glad I'm not closer to Grand Island, Nebraska. I'd like to be at that PTA meeting or School District meeting to tell everyone in the room how I feel about it. There might be some of these stupid people in the room, but I doubt they'd get it. His sign isn't even the letter H, it's the letter R (the crossed fingers, like you might make behind your back when you're telling a lie). I have a member of my extended family named Gunnar (those crazy Norwegians). That's his freakin name. What in the world would the school do with that? Obviously NOTHING. The double standard this case represents makes me incandescent with anger. As I followed up on this story, I found this news report. It seems that the school district is in full reverse on this subject, saying "Grand Island Public Schools is not requiring any current student with a hearing impairment to change his or her sign language name." O.R.L.Y. Where did this story come from then? The Liberal Mainstream Media? I hope the parents get satisfaction on this case. This isn't a little bit of a problem on both sides like many other issues. This is all, all on the school district and those who open their mouths on their behalf to let the stupid out. __________________ Be Just and Fear Not.

09-06-2012, 04:48 AM	#416
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	. Attached Images __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

12-13-2012, 08:32 AM	#418
glatt ™ Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 27,717	I thought I read that he stole the gun from a friend. So any background check or waiting period type of regulation wouldn't have worked here. The only way to prevent this would be to completely ban guns. And I'm glad he used a long rifle in the mall. It's serious looking, but in a confined space like a mall, a long rifle is a bad choice for doing serious damage. A handgun or some sort of short barrel would have been much worse. Look at the numbers. Only 2 dead. Terrible, but it could have been much worse. I expect that this guy will be found to by mentally ill. That's the real story. We need to do a better job as a society of identifying and treating the mentally ill before they do stuff like this. I think it ties in to affordable health care. You can attack this problem from the health care side instead of the gun grab side and probably be more effective. The gun debate is over. The Supreme Court ruled a couple years ago when it said that the DC gun ban was unconstitutional.

12-14-2012, 10:01 AM	#420
infinite monkey Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 13,002	Where was the law-abidin' gun-totin' heroes ready to pull out their concealed carry and pop a cap in the skull of these nutjobs? They never seem to be around. If they are, they're scared, or realize the danger of shooting into crowds.

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